Moving from a BS Nuc to WBC / National Hive

[DenisCooper]

Good morning,

We are new to bee keeping and have a couple of BS nucs using standard size national frames.

Next year we plan to move them into proper hives.

I already have a WBC which I got for Christmas several years back, not used yet. It has standard national brood frames in it...but I got a good deal on over 100 14x12 national frames from an auction site, so I would like to be able to make use of these. My plan is to also buy a national hive in addition to the WBC...

I understand Ill need to change the brood box on the WBC and get the national to support the 14x12 frames, but what would the process be for moving the bees over from the nucs, i assume i can't just move the standard size frames over and will need to either adapt or shake the bees off etc?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Good morning,

We are new to bee keeping and have a couple of BS nucs using standard size national frames.

Next year we plan to move them into proper hives.

I already have a WBC which I got for Christmas several years back, not used yet. It has standard national brood frames in it...but I got a good deal on over 100 14x12 national frames from an auction site, so I would like to be able to make use of these. My plan is to also buy a national hive in addition to the WBC...

I understand Ill need to change the brood box on the WBC and get the national to support the 14x12 frames, but what would the process be for moving the bees over from the nucs, i assume i can't just move the standard size frames over and will need to either adapt or shake the bees off etc?

You could simply use a suitably deep eke on the national brood depth boxes or as you say use correct depth boxes for the new frames. You can also simply place mixed standard frames in the 14 x 12 boxes. The bees will hang comb off the shorter frames as required. Alternatively if you like joinery you could cut down the cheap 14 x 12 frames. If you go for simply putting dn frames in 14 x 12 boxes you can gradually work then to the sides of the chamber then eventually out.

 

[DenisCooper]

ahh right...so i wasn't sure if that would be okay to do - mixing the different size frames - I guess that would be the simplest option and eventually replace all the frames with the 14x12. thank you

 

[Mint Bee]

So sounds like you bought some 'bargain' frames and want them to drive your beekeeping experience. We have all been caught up in the excitement as beginners. You should see the price some manky old equipment goes for at auctions once the bidding fever kicks in.

stick to one size. far simpler in the long term. Have you tried handling full 14 x 12 frames? some love them, some hate them. Pros and cons on both sides.
Never seen an eke for sale for a WBC brood box (unless you can make one), but you can buy 14 x 12 brood boxes for WBCs. National 14 x 12 brood box 'may' fit into the outer casing for the WBC, but depends on who made both of them - bit of a lottery.

If you are not a member, it is worth joining a local beekeeping group as they will be able to answer these sorts of questions and give practical experience. However, its always asking why an individual has settled on a solution. Sometimes it out of habit or lack of understanding, and worth challenging.

Good Luck

 

[DenisCooper]

So sounds like you bought some 'bargain' frames and want them to drive your beekeeping experience. We have all been caught up in the excitement as beginners. You should see the price some manky old equipment goes for at auctions once the bidding fever kicks in.

stick to one size. far simpler in the long term. Have you tried handling full 14 x 12 frames? some love them, some hate them. Pros and cons on both sides.
Never seen an eke for sale for a WBC brood box (unless you can make one), but you can buy 14 x 12 brood boxes for WBCs. National 14 x 12 brood box 'may' fit into the outer casing for the WBC, but depends on who made both of them - bit of a lottery.

If you are not a member, it is worth joining a local beekeeping group as they will be able to answer these sorts of questions and give practical experience. However, its always asking why an individual has settled on a solution. Sometimes it out of habit or lack of understanding, and worth challenging.

Good Luck

Thanks for the reply and tips.

The frames were brand new (flat packed) and I only paid £30 for 14 packs of ten
Frames. So I thought it was worth the buy.

 

[Mint Bee]

that is a good price to be fair

 

[Newbeeneil]

Good morning,

We are new to bee keeping and have a couple of BS nucs using standard size national frames.

Next year we plan to move them into proper hives.

I already have a WBC which I got for Christmas several years back, not used yet. It has standard national brood frames in it...but I got a good deal on over 100 14x12 national frames from an auction site, so I would like to be able to make use of these. My plan is to also buy a national hive in addition to the WBC...

I understand Ill need to change the brood box on the WBC and get the national to support the 14x12 frames, but what would the process be for moving the bees over from the nucs, i assume i can't just move the standard size frames over and will need to either adapt or shake the bees off etc?

Well we have all been there, All those lovely frames at a bargin price. "I'm sure I can use them"

With the mere 15yrs of beekeeping experience and plenty of similar thoughts - especially at an auction - I would do the following.

1 - bag up the 14x12 frames into lots of 20-30 frames and put them back in the auction, you are bound to get more for them in many smaller lots as they appeal to the small beekeeper. After all you have enough frames there to populate 14 WBC brood boxes and that is more than most beekeepers ever need.
2 - have a look at the sales going on at the moment from Maisemore and Thornes and buy yourself a couple of standard national seconds hives. These boxes will fit within your WBC's, give you 10% more space than standard WBC brood boxes, be better insulated because of the thicker timber used and mean that all your kit is the same.
3 - at the same time as 2 above buy a pack of 50 standard DN frames to populate the 2 boxes.

By doing the above you won't have the faff of changing frame size and all your kit will be standard and if your colonies get big you could always use double brood (not something i'd like to contemplate with 14x12's)

Have fun and good luck with your bees overwinter.

 

[DenisCooper]

Well we have all been there, All those lovely frames at a bargin price. "I'm sure I can use them"

With the mere 15yrs of beekeeping experience and plenty of similar thoughts - especially at an auction - I would do the following.

1 - bag up the 14x12 frames into lots of 20-30 frames and put them back in the auction, you are bound to get more for them in many smaller lots as they appeal to the small beekeeper. After all you have enough frames there to populate 14 WBC brood boxes and that is more than most beekeepers ever need.
2 - have a look at the sales going on at the moment from Maisemore and Thornes and buy yourself a couple of standard national seconds hives. These boxes will fit within your WBC's, give you 10% more space than standard WBC brood boxes, be better insulated because of the thicker timber used and mean that all your kit is the same.
3 - at the same time as 2 above buy a pack of 50 standard DN frames to populate the 2 boxes.

By doing the above you won't have the faff of changing frame size and all your kit will be standard and if your colonies get big you could always use double brood (not something i'd like to contemplate with 14x12's)

Have fun and good luck with your bees overwinter.

I’ll take a look at what they have. Thank you.

 

[North End Bees]

So sounds like you bought some 'bargain' frames and want them to drive your beekeeping experience.

The wisest words.

In a few years time you don't want to be on here asking for advice on how best to move full colonies down from 14x12 to standards.
And then have to get shot of several used 14x12 hives as well as all those used frames.

You can easily sell on all those new frames in the coming spring for a profit. If you want to practise your frame building, make them up and sell for a bit more.

 

[drex]

I agree with the advice above, to first handle a full 14x12 frame. I find them too unwieldy so I stick to BS national deep. Try to have one standard throughout your apiary. Mix and match can cause no end of problems

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The frames were brand new (flat packed) and I only paid £30 for 14 packs of ten
Frames. So I thought it was worth the buy.

but any savings you made are negated by the fact you now need to buy 14x12 broods, nucs etc.

 

[JamezF]

Just cut the 14x12 sidebars down to "normal" length

James

 

[DenisCooper]

I understand—thank you. I have no real desire to use the bargain frames I bought if there is a better option. I bought them not knowing the sizes—they were just labeled national frames, and the price I paid was a bargain. I will have a go at making a few up to get some practice, though, and look to resell them next year. Then stick with the WBC I already have and new national - to buy.

 

[North End Bees]

And if you haven't already, join your local BKA and book yourself on their Beginners course.

 

[DenisCooper]

And if you haven't already, join your local BKA and book yourself on their Beginners course.

i have