Mouldy crownboard

[Finman]

This chap ..cant be doing much wrong (can he)

Seems to go his own ways. Not wise.

I have nursed bees 47 years. I use chemicals and I use insulations. No molded covers.
To loose some hives is normal to me.

I do not trust on beekeepers which have no troubles. I have all the time problems.

.

 

[TOBY-3652]

I understand ure opinion but it is a tad colder where u live i also understand where rabs coming from regarding 10 or 20 degrees colder and loft insulation. Will try some with insulation next winter and some without

 

[Finman]

Will try some with insulation next winter and some without

You are a real wheel inventor!

One hive and changing the beekeeping world

 

[greatbritishhoney]

You are a real wheel inventor!

One hive and changing the beekeeping world

I see nothing wrong with new beekeepers challenging received wisdom. That's how we move forward and make new discoveries isn't it?
I also know plenty of beekeepers who don't use top insulation and they don't seem to have any higher losses than those I know that do. However, I agree that not using insulation probably increase the risk if we have a very cold winter and it also probably means the bees get through more stores.
I'll give it a try next winter and see how it works for me.

 

[Finman]

I see nothing wrong with new beekeepers challenging received wisdom. That's how we move forward and make new discoveries isn't it? .

These things are not if you do that, the hive dies, if you do that, it survives.





Very few remember that getting alive over winter is not the only question.

To me the spring build up is more important, how fast I get hives in foraging condition. Heat has a big role in spring, how large brood ball the colony is able to maintain over cold nights or rainy windy days.

 

[bobandbec]

I over Winter on a combination of OMF and solid floors at about 75/25, no entrance blocks.
I have never used insulation of any type and many of my roofs have no ventilation holes.
But I do try to make sure the colonies are strong with young bees going into Winter and as far as possible varroa free. Much more important in my opinion.

Every beekeeper should be aware of the options available then make a choice.
It is a choice, there is no right or wrong.

Peter

 

[rowbow]

If you have used linseed oil on the ply crown board this will give you mould,
the sides of the hive are 20mm thick crown board 4 or 6mm heat rises ?


John

 

[oliver90owner]

That's how we move forward and make new discoveries isn't it?

Not particularly, in this case, when Grandfather was doing it - for an obvious good reason.

Just thinking a little about it might reveal the simple fact that an energy balance is needed to prevent the cluster from cooling.

Heat lost to the surroundings has to be replaced by the bees.

Next simple fact. Bees derive thermal energy from honey. It is the only source available to them in the coldest part of the winter.

Therefore it follows that more stores must be consumed by the colony that needs to provide more thermal energy to replace that extra energy lost to the surroundings.

Joined up thinking needed now. 'More stores used' to the bees means less stores remaining to fuel the spring build-up; a greater chance of starvation should the first nectar flow be delayed, or a slower spring build-up which can be detrimental to the colony as they will be further stressed with having to cope with fewer bees and losing time for replenishing those stores.

All ways round not good for the bees - unless the beekeeper helps them out

On the other side we have the beek feeding fondant/syrup unecessarily, having a reduced net honey crop and a weaker colony of bees. Not so good for him/her.

That is why Grandfather added quilts to his hives for winter. He knew all that from a long time before, when beekeepers found that extra insulation was profitable for the bees and the beekeeper.

As Finman says, talk about reinventing the wheel!

I daresay I might as well disagree with bobandbec too. While lots of strong healthy bees are important going into winter, the colony could survive on fewer of them. Result might be slower spring build up etc; so all these 'small' extras to help the bees are important.

There may be no 'right' or wrong' but there are certainly 'better' alternatives if the beek wants his/her colonies to get into spring as strong as possible and get the early flow stored as honey, not mainly used to reinforce the colony (which may then be counter-productive if there is a larg gap before the next strong flow) either leading to starvation or early swarming (as a couple of examples).

RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

TBH

I have given this info times.

PH

 

[kazmcc]

Our bees were wintered on OMF but with no insulation. Does the hive being ply make a difference? Now here comes one of my questions

How do you make sure you have young bees going into winter? Seems to me the bees regulate this kind of thing themselves, or have I missed something? I can't recall my mentor doing anything special. All we did was treat for varroa and feed.

 

[bobandbec]

Beekeepers being beekeepers again.

Peter

 

[Hombre]

Our bees were wintered on OMF but with no insulation. Does the hive being ply make a difference?

How do you make sure you have young bees going into winter? Seems to me the bees regulate this kind of thing themselves,.

Ply hives can be a little colder than cedar, but investment in a sheet of Knauf Spaceboard at your local B&Q will give you two slabs of 460mm x 460mm and some bits left over when cut with a saw. it is slightly denser than standard expanded polystyrene and is referred to as extruded polystyrene. Well worth using and the bees like it.

Kept fed and healthy, meaning little or no varroa and preferably fed syrup that has been treated with thymol for nosema from September, the bees will as you say will pretty much look after themselves.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I'm willing to accept that their is good science behind insulation and that it's the right thing to do but I can't accept that it's right just because granfather used to do it. People used to think the earth was flat too.

 

[oliver90owner]

So you don't think there might have been some good scientists among our Grandfathers?

You don't think they thought through why insulated colonies did better than others (on average)? You think that 100 years on there is still mileage in Einstein's Theories of Relativity.
Some were ahead of their time and scientists are still checking on some aspects of Einstein. But that is rocket science. Wheels are old hat, but can be refined and improved, but the basic design has not changed one iota since it's inception.

Beekeeping, for most of us, is basic Newtonian/Darwinian (and others) science, not the 'rocket' variety. Learn to use the KISS principle and beekeeping can become a quite straight forward science. Ask john Harding!

RAB

 

[greatbritishhoney]

So you don't think there might have been some good scientists among our Grandfathers?

You don't think they thought through why insulated colonies did better than others (on average)? You think that 100 years on there is still mileage in Einstein's Theories of Relativity.
Some were ahead of their time and scientists are still checking on some aspects of Einstein. But that is rocket science. Wheels are old hat, but can be refined and improved, but the basic design has not changed one iota since it's inception.

Beekeeping, for most of us, is basic Newtonian/Darwinian (and others) science, not the 'rocket' variety. Learn to use the KISS principle and beekeeping can become a quite straight forward science. Ask john Harding!

RAB

Of our course our grandfathers made great innovations in beekeeping, science, art,culture - precisely because they DIDN'T just do what THEIR grandfathers had done. Darwin, Einstein, Gallileo, Newton all did exactly the opposite of what you are advocating - they challenged the beliefs of the day through experiment. If we all did what grandfather had done we'd still be keeping bees in skeps.

 

[BobH1]

People used to think the earth was flat too.

But the Earth is flat!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/