Mother of God Hive system

[nbeek]

Ok, before I start all I know about this, is what I have watched on YouTube, Links below, so this Post is to start of a discussion on it, especially as I am somewhat perplexed by it (I think we can agree not to start discussing the religious aspect of it, please...)

the short explanation,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUnCRo3jLCo

and the long explanation,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMb7707-qUM

it seems to be a 'thing' in Ukraine to combine Hives into Double plus Hives (Double plus Queen Hives), as here they are discussing it, although not the Mother Of God system,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwsatrlXnt4

I can see this Post quickly becoming a discussion on Double Queen Hives, but the concept is central to the Mother Of God system, I suppose it's only natural; the other key aspect of this system is the special Frames.

Any thoughts...

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Ok, before I start all I know about this, is what I have watched on YouTube, Links below, so this Post is to start of a discussion on it, especially as I am somewhat perplexed by it (I think we can agree not to start discussing the religious aspect of it, please...)

the short explanation,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUnCRo3jLCo

and the long explanation,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMb7707-qUM

it seems to be a 'thing' in Ukraine to combine Hives into Double plus Hives (Double plus Queen Hives), as here they are discussing it, although not the Mother Of God system,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwsatrlXnt4

I can see this Post quickly becoming a discussion on Double Queen Hives, but the concept is central to the Mother Of God system, I suppose it's only natural; the other key aspect of this system is the special Frames.

Any thoughts...

Another different fad? We've enough variants to struggle with already.

 

[madasafish]

In seven years of beekeeping, I must have read about a different hive type at least once a year.

Mostly they are specialised, or have obvious disadvantages and/or are too complex.

This falls into the above categories.

 

[Finman]

.
Any thoughts?

Yes, comes into mind but goes at once away.

 

[nbeek]

You guys don't want to discuss this, I thought this was the place to post this kind of stuff.

I was very interested in his taking the bees 'hive' (collective) instinct and using it to connect different hives throughout the year to reduce their swarming instinct, and strengthen the group as a whole, and then the connections would be removed at the end of the season (or so he says...)

I was very intrigued about this!

I had never heard of double queening until this (which I think this is a variation of), if you don't want to discuss this Hive (system) then what about the double queening system . . . or do you think I should start another Post dedicated to Double Queening instead?

I'm just trying to have a discussion about something that I found fascinating; my two cents worth, I'm not sure if there is that much interaction between the Hives through those tunnels, wouldn't they guard the tunnels like they guard the entrance? Anyone else want to give their two cents?

Sorry if this isn't as interesting to the Members as I thought it would be.

 

[Anduril]

You guys don't want to discuss this, I thought this was the place to post this kind of stuff.

I was very interested in his taking the bees 'hive' (collective) instinct and using it to connect different hives throughout the year to reduce their swarming instinct, and strengthen the group as a whole, and then the connections would be removed at the end of the season (or so he says...)

I was very intrigued about this!

I had never heard of double queening until this (which I think this is a variation of), if you don't want to discuss this Hive (system) then what about the double queening system . . . or do you think I should start another Post dedicated to Double Queening instead?

I'm just trying to have a discussion about something that I found fascinating; my two cents worth, I'm not sure if there is that much interaction between the Hives through those tunnels, wouldn't they guard the tunnels like they guard the entrance? Anyone else want to give their two cents?

Sorry if this isn't as interesting to the Members as I thought it would be.

Old news, similar system.
http://bibba.com/the-john-harding-queen-rearing-system/

 

[Finman]

.
Ukrainian beekeepers use Carniolan race, what they call Carpatian bee. Carnionan bee is quite swarmy. But non selected Italian bee produces swarms as well.

Ukrainian winter is cold. That formulates their hive type.

 

[colinc]

As with the other thread it is simpler and therefore cheaper and more adaptable to stick to a hive format that your contacts and possible helpers use. Fancy one off frames and odd custom shape boxes make it difficult to borrow kit in an emergency or source new kit when stuff breaks.

It was said at the top it is just over complicated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[nbeek]

Old news, similar system.
http://bibba.com/the-john-harding-queen-rearing-system/

Ok, so my two cents was wrong; there is positive interaction between the Hives / Towers, and the bee scent does spread through the connected hives, enabling them to mix harmoniously together.

So the basis of this Ukrainian system would appear to be valid and workable, whether it achieves it stated end purpose is undetermined, however the Ukrainian bee Carniolan is swarmy, so I can see why they're trying to develop a system to manage this trait.

The system however does look complicated, but I have heard people 'claim' that when you double queen a hive you get more than twice the honey, ie: if one hive gives you 10 kilos and two gives you naturally 20 kilos a double hive will give you more than 20 kilos, although I can't see how... unless some other Members can give some info. of their experience / knowledge of double hives (queens)?

Thank you Anduril, that link was extremely interesting and informative.

 

[pargyle]

Sorry if this isn't as interesting to the Members as I thought it would be.

It's not that these 'different' systems are not interesting ... I think that it's just that even the most hardened experimenters (and I'm one of them) eventually come to the conclusion that there are some things that are worth trying and some which just over-complicate. This idea comes into the latter category - beekeeping can be hard enough at times without making life more difficult.

Not every topic introduced on here gets people talking - this one is a bit niche so look at the number of views compared to the posts and move on.

 

[Somerford]

Well I think it's interesting. Thank you for the links. I'll comment on it when I get the chance - am running Area : BEE this weekend at Fieldview Music Festival so will be a tad busy

KR

S

 

[nbeek]

Thank you very much pargyle and Somerford for the nice words,

I was just a bit taken aback by the negative reaction... especially whenever I really found it fascinating and assumed other beeks would to; Ukrainian beekeepers seem to have a few different techniques that I haven't come across here in the west.

 

[pargyle]

TUkrainian beekeepers seem to have a few different techniques that I haven't come across here in the west.

Yes ... there's prrobably a reason for that .... climate, local bees and conditions in Ukraine ! ... We have a Finnish beekeeper on here who doesn't yet grasp that everything he does in Finland cannot always be done over here ...

 

[Jowlpost]

I struggle with the whole concept of a botom entrance. No where in the wild do you see ferral colonies with a bottom entrance .. why do we force bees to live in a 2 story detached house with a permanently open front door that feeds cold air this time of year straight up though the nursery. It makes no sense, lets waxmoth, wasps and mice in and the bees can't defend it. Yes you can close it up but what a performance on a national so most people dont bother and wonder why the queen ends up in the super..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I struggle with the whole concept of a botom entrance. No where in the wild do you see ferral colonies with a bottom entrance ..

I know of at least two within a couple of miles of me

 

[Jowlpost]

Great .. can you send in a picture? seeing is believing

 

[Erichalfbee]

I struggle with the whole concept of a botom entrance. No where in the wild do you see ferral colonies with a bottom entrance .. why do we force bees to live in a 2 story detached house with a permanently open front door that feeds cold air this time of year straight up though the nursery. It makes no sense, lets waxmoth, wasps and mice in and the bees can't defend it. Yes you can close it up but what a performance on a national so most people dont bother and wonder why the queen ends up in the super..

So do you run your colonies with a top entrance? Tell us more?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Great .. can you send in a picture? seeing is believing

I'll do a deal with you - you show me definitive proof that

No where in the wild do you see ferral colonies with a bottom entrance ..

And I'll find a way of uploading the video of the Ty Uchaf oak tree colony.
I can't recall Tom Seeley stating anywhere that in his extensive research of tree colonies (Have you read 'Honeybee Democracy?) that all the entrances were at the top, and I'm sure, when he was asked a similar question at the UBKA convention last February, he said entrances were usually at the bottom - in fact the bait hives he made based on his findings all had bottom entrances and the Cornell Univerity publication written by Seeley, Morse and Nowogrodski (publication 187 - Bait Hives for Honeybees) stipulate the entrance should be near the bottom.
Be interesting if you could share your references?

 

[Jowlpost]

Hi This is the basic hive configuration. The basement box ( has part waxed frames) and solid floors eliminate draughts so the queen will lay down if she wants, the workers can build whatever comb is needed (stores/drones) and the workers will filll the supers above so she cant lay up there. All very simple. No wasps, no wax moth better ventillation, no mice. We will use a QE + super between brood boxes if we are running 2 queens in one hive

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi This is the basic hive configuration. The basement box ( has part waxed frames) and solid floors eliminate draughts so the queen will lay down if she wants, the workers can build whatever comb is needed (stores/drones) and the workers will filll the supers above so she cant lay up there. All very simple. No wasps, no wax moth better ventillation, no mice. We will use a QE + super between brood boxes if we are running 2 queens in one hive

You'll have to let us know how you get on next season. I'm happy with what I have and see no reason to change. The UFE has served me well and keeping the colonies strong has enabled my bees to avoid wasp incursion and the only wax moth I ever see is the occasional larva on the inspection board if left in and not cleaned regularly.
That's not to say that I'm not interested in what others do.
Six years ago Stan and I put up an insulated bee box in one of our trees.It has been occupied for five. It has two entrances each about 2.5cm diameter; one in a top corner and the other at the bottom in the middle. In the summer the bees use both entrances and in winter the bottom one is sealed.