"Misusing Medicines and Substance Abuse" - NBU

[Amari]

August BBKA News has an article with the above title written by three NBU officers.
The article summarises the various approved veterinary medicines and rightly emphasises the importance of following the makers' instructions.
The next section deals with "Non-approved substances" including alternative pyrethroid strips, snake oils, Varroagard, etc
However, no mention is made of generic oxalic acid i.e. the crystals which many of us have been using for several years for trickling or vapping - but which is now illegal to use. How dumb is that!
Oxalic acid crystals are of course freely available to purchase - widely used for cleaning garden furniture and boats.

 

[Nige.Coll]

No mention of generic oxalic recipes because it is how beekeepers managed for decades.
The fact api bollocks is now the only legal oxalic doesn't make the old recipes less effective.
It's oa sugar and silica so it's just oa with added crap.

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[charlievictorbravo]

August BBKA News has an article with the above title written by three NBU officers.
The article summarises the various approved veterinary medicines and rightly emphasises the importance of following the makers' instructions.
The next section deals with "Non-approved substances" including alternative pyrethroid strips, snake oils, Varroagard, etc
However, no mention is made of generic oxalic acid i.e. the crystals which many of us have been using for several years for trickling or vapping - but which is now illegal to use. How dumb is that!
Oxalic acid crystals are of course freely available to purchase - widely used for cleaning garden furniture and boats.

and the insides of beehives, it seems!

CVB

 

[madasafish]

The whole tenor of the NBU article - as I read it - was that unauthorised substances had a bad effect on bee colony health.

They cannot say that about OA so said nothing...

 

[dolbz]

no mention is made of generic oxalic acid i.e. the crystals which many of us have been using for several years for trickling or vapping - but which is now illegal to use.

Can someone clarify if this is the case? My understanding is that as it's not an authorised medicine it would be illegal to sell as a bee treatment but there's nothing stopping you doing whatever you want to treat your bees?

 

[Finman]

Can someone clarify if this is the case? My understanding is that as it's not an authorised medicine it would be illegal to sell as a bee treatment but there's nothing stopping you doing whatever you want to treat your bees?

Case is, that beekeeping business men want your money. They do not like that you buy oxalic acid £ 10/kg and it lasts rest of your life.
But they want that you pay every year £ 14 /hive.

You may pay legally Italian and German oxalic acid with top price, but not English.

Obey nicely and be quiet and pay what is asked.
.

Law Book has been the most important book in British beekeeping. Always something is against law. But the same is allowed in other countries in EU.

 

[mjt68]

Can someone clarify if this is the case? My understanding is that as it's not an authorised medicine it would be illegal to sell as a bee treatment but there's nothing stopping you doing whatever you want to treat your bees?

Is allowable to sell honey for hives so treated? I have no idea.

 

[Amari]

Can someone clarify if this is the case? My understanding is that as it's not an authorised medicine it would be illegal to sell as a bee treatment but there's nothing stopping you doing whatever you want to treat your bees?

Not so.

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?sectionid=110

"Generic substances such as oxalic acid should not be used and beekeepers are liable to prosecution if traces are found during routine honey sampling".

"It is not legal to administer a product that is not allowed by the Veterinary Medicinals Directorate".

The VMD remit includes inspecting random samples of honey for medicinal residues.

 

[Amari]

Case is, that beekeeping business men want your money. They do not like that you buy oxalic acid £ 10/kg and it lasts rest of your life.
But they want that you pay every year £ 14 /hive.
You may pay legally Italian and German oxalic acid with top price, but not English.
Obey nicely and be quiet and pay what is asked.
.

Law Book has been the most important book in British beekeeping. Always something is against law. But the same is allowed in other countries in EU.

Quite right Finman! The UK is the only EU country which obeys EU rules, all the rest of you make the rules but don't keep to them. No wonder the UK voted for Brexit (well, not me actually).

 

[colinc]

Wonder if they can tell the difference between oxalic from "hive-cleaning" and apibioxal source by sampling honey from supers that are not on the hive when you treat.........


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[Gilberdyke John]

Not so.

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?sectionid=110

"Generic substances such as oxalic acid should not be used and beekeepers are liable to prosecution if traces are found during routine honey sampling".

"It is not legal to administer a product that is not allowed by the Veterinary Medicinals Directorate".

The VMD remit includes inspecting random samples of honey for medicinal residues.

I understand oxalic acid was found to be present in untreated hives and depending on the forage could be higher than that found in some treated hives. When viewed from a realistic point of view api bioxal treatment is legal as is some eu equivalent product. Seems to be bs

 

[dolbz]

Thanks for the source Amari. I'd love to know if any cases have actually been bought against beekeepers if anyone knows more about that?

No wonder treatment-free has growing support

 

[colinc]

If a case was brought it would be in the BBKA mag or on the forums very quickly. Not aware of any cases regarding oxalic being brought, yet.
As stated above though oxalic and Formic acid are normal in honey anyway in small quantities just be wary of vaping with supers on.


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[Hebeegeebee]

I understand oxalic acid was found to be present in untreated hives and depending on the forage could be higher than that found in some treated hives. When viewed from a realistic point of view api bioxal treatment is legal as is some eu equivalent product. Seems to be bs

And Apiboixal is a higher concentration that the 3.2% we used to use, so is potentially more harmful!

"Generic substances such as oxalic acid should not be used and beekeepers are liable to prosecution if traces are found during routine honey sampling".

Would we be prosecuted if residue of Apibioxal be present in the hives?

It is pretty unlikely that residue of OA would be found in any case as is disappears quite quickly.

Are the rules to protect bees or people?

If it's bees, then we ARE of course allowed to use MAQS which can cause major disruption and queen loss which is a bit odd.
If it's people, then treating a nuc with OA should be OK as there won't be any honey in it.

 

[colinc]

Are the rules to protect bees or people?

If it's bees, then we ARE of course allowed to use MAQS which can cause major disruption and queen loss.
If it's people, then treating a nuc with OA should be OK as there won't be any honey in it.

If you were cynical due to the fact Apibioxal has added bits that don't help but hinder treatment and reduce purity of the OA, it is to protect people namely the shareholders of the drug company who own the licence for a drug they have "developed" that was already in widespread use, with no issues or complaints.



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[madasafish]

In August 2016, the BI inspected all my hives and took away about 0.5lb honey for analysis. Nothing untoward was found..

I suspect their main concern would be antibiotics..

 

[Amari]

In August 2016, the BI inspected all my hives and took away about 0.5lb honey for analysis. Nothing untoward was found..

I suspect their main concern would be antibiotics..

I wonder what would have happened if you'd refused to release the samples? A visit by the local fuzz armed with a warrant and handcuffs?

 

[madasafish]

I wonder what would have happened if you'd refused to release the samples? A visit by the local fuzz armed with a warrant and handcuffs?

I understand they have a legal right to do so..

I was relaxed : I had nothing to hide..only use natural substances which - if used correctly - leave little trace and are indistinguishable from the naturally occurring ones ...

 

[charlievictorbravo]

The phrase "if traces are found during routine honey sampling" is interesting.

On the face of it, the authorities cannot target a beekeeper who they suspect of using illegal substances. They can only prosecute as a result of "routine" honey sampling, not targeted sampling.

I rest my case, my lord.

CVB

 

[Flyinstructor]

August BBKA News has an article with the above title written by three NBU officers.
The article summarises the various approved veterinary medicines and rightly emphasises the importance of following the makers' instructions.
The next section deals with "Non-approved substances" including alternative pyrethroid strips, snake oils, Varroagard, etc
However, no mention is made of generic oxalic acid i.e. the crystals which many of us have been using for several years for trickling or vapping - but which is now illegal to use. How dumb is that!
Oxalic acid crystals are of course freely available to purchase - widely used for cleaning garden furniture and boats.

IMHO it came across as smug, oxalic other than the (retrograde step) sole approved concoction was not mentioned and interestingly although Apivar was included in special licence category Apitraz 500mg strips (amitraz) were not mentioned. Apitraz was I believe given certain authorisation including marketing licence for UK by Defra in April 2016. It has been approved by Vet Med agency for varroa treatment for bees . It is, I believe, being officially launched in UK (and also Eire) in a few days time - 1 August 2017. Apitraz and `Apivar are essentially identical products, namely amitraz impregnated plastic strips designed to give deliver a low measured dose over defined period causing varroa to cease feeding and die of starvation rather than alternative high knock-down doses.