Mean green queen saga continues

[Obee1]

So to save peeps looking back through the posts - my garden hive turned mean. Really mean.
15 June - I had bought a hivemaker queen to requeen. My meangreenqueen was killed on 15 June. That same day I did a newspaper join to a pre prepared nuc of hivemakers queen which was egg laying. Saw eggs in hive on 19 June and 26 June but quit that last inspection as they were too angry.

On 29 June did another inspection. Found my lovely new queen lying dying on hive floor. That's 14 days since newspaper join.

On 4/7 hive moved to an out apiary, where I explained it was angry but I was requeening. Hive host said his smallholdings was big enough and he was a 'trained beekeeper'. 24 hours later he rings to say he changed his mind and I must take them away.

Today, 8 July I split hive into one bb hive plus 3 nucs with several queencells each. ( there were loads of QC ) So that's 10 days since hivemakers queen died.

So these queen cells must be from hivemakers queen. Unless they are empty? Could there have been a virgin running round raised at the newspaper joining time that killed my queen?
I assume there can't be any queens running around now as they made queen cells?
Am I missing anything?

Before anyone tells me I have wrecked my chances Of honey I had no choice. The offer of allowing them to move to a new home was dependant on them being split into smaller hives due to their aggression- which it must be said was absent today! Sods law!

does anyone know if the fact my lovely queen was not killed instantly means anything? Could she have been balled instead of stung. Or did I damage her - she looked perfect but was curled into an L shape.

 

[nantmoel]

Hmmmm I would say that the way you found her she had been 'stung' by another queen. I have watched loads of video's where a virgin queen kills another queen, and they do look like the way you say you found your queen!

This whole "queen" introduction is a can of worms! I think what you did was all correct with the exception of not shaking the bees off all the frames and checking for QC's. But then I would have thought that any new queen would have destroyed them! But apparently not.

There are so many 'TRUSTED' methods here and in books it make you think which one should I follow.

Brother Adam in his book (Page 24) removes the old queen and introduces the new queen that has been laying straight away (using a cage with a candy plug), he states that a laying queen that has only been caged for a short period of time is less nervous on the comb and the bees except her.

I just hope that the methods we have used work! I will let know on Saturday when we have our first look, fingers crossed.

 

[Tremyfro]

So Meangreenqueen...is definitely no more...can I sleep easy at night now? Been having nightmares of her multiplying all around the Vale!
What a nightmare for you...that is no introduction to beekeeping. I think I would have given up by now. I lost count of the stings you took. All over now ....we hope. Had they in fact actually made any honey at all...or had they scoffed it?

 

[Hawklord]

Sounds to me like the colony was agreessive because they were trying to supercede. I find that more often than not the agression isn't due to genetics, it's time of year, weather, etc. The problem you will have now is what drones your buckfast queens mate with.

 

[For want of a better word]

Sounds to me like the colony was agreessive because they were trying to supercede. I find that more often than not the agression isn't due to genetics, it's time of year, weather, etc. The problem you will have now is what drones your buckfast queens mate with.

I can second that!

I consider that buying in queens every season, is a bit of a lottery, particularly if they immediately are superceeded and mate with the great unknown of the local drone population.
I seem to have less aggression now that I can breed from my own stock, but most certainly the weather and even the beekeepers manipulation skills can make a massive difference to the quietness of the bees.

Yeghes da

 

[Obee1]

Sounds to me like the colony was agreessive because they were trying to supercede. I find that more often than not the agression isn't due to genetics, it's time of year, weather, etc. The problem you will have now is what drones your buckfast queens mate with.

It's outof my hands now. The hive has been taken by my bee inspector (as a friend, not bee inspector) and the Q- part will be given a local mongrel queen. I'm hopeful the bucky queencells in the nucs will mate on their welsh mountainside and turn out ok. They will be returned to me when they play nice

 

[Eyeman]

I seem to have less aggression now that I can breed from my own stock, but most certainly the weather and even the beekeepers manipulation skills can make a massive difference to the quietness of the bees.

If you keep hive records after each visit it is easier to identify which hives have bad genes. But I agree, even those hives which were previously aggressive can surprise you on the odd occasion.

 

[Obee1]

So Meangreenqueen...is definitely no more...can I sleep easy at night now? Been having nightmares of her multiplying all around the Vale!
What a nightmare for you...that is no introduction to beekeeping. I think I would have given up by now. I lost count of the stings you took. All over now ....we hope. Had they in fact actually made any honey at all...or had they scoffed it?

She is still living on in her daughters hive I made in the April split. Plan to put 36b in there Asap. Must admit my determination to stick with beeking wavered this week when it got to the point of serious discussion with bee inspector on how to kill the colony - but perseverance paid off. So glad to have someone helping who is an expert.
Yes there is honey there. But not all capped yet. Patience. Patience.

 

[Obee1]

Sounds to me like the colony was agreessive because they were trying to supercede. I find that more often than not the agression isn't due to genetics, it's time of year, weather, etc. The problem you will have now is what drones your buckfast queens mate with.

How are you getting that they were trying to supercede. The aggression started back in April and escalated. At that time there was meangreenqueen who had built up after winter to 13 brood frames. Hive was split and she kept 5 brood frames but lost foragers. By June she had built back up to 17 brood frames and got meaner each inspection. No sign of queencells until after they were made q- and requeened that same day. It was such a tall hive I wonder if the new queen at top didn't spread enough pheromone to the whole hive and they raised EQC's - or maybe they didn't like change. Probably didn't like petes queens accent. Who knows! Either way very stressful problem for a new beek to deal with.
I may just go back to my knitting.

Obee

 

[beeno]

Hi Obee1, I feel for you it is a terrible experience and it has made me determined to requeen one of my colonies which is not too bad, but could potentially escalate as it is prolific. Thank god for bee inspectors!
The only thing you could have done different, as Hivemaker has already mentioned, is that you should have made them hopelessly queenless, i.e. after you killed mean green you should have gone in afterwards and removed all the emergency queen cells and checked with a test frame to ensure the job had been done. Requeening large colonies is a different ball game, thereof the recommendation to do it via a nuc which you did.
Thank you for sharing this horrendous experience and we all prey it does not happen to us.

 

[Obee1]

Hi Obee1, I feel for you it is a terrible experience and it has made me determined to requeen one of my colonies which is not too bad, but could potentially escalate as it is prolific. Thank god for bee inspectors!
The only thing you could have done different, as Hivemaker has already mentioned, is that you should have made them hopelessly queenless, i.e. after you killed mean green you should have gone in afterwards and removed all the emergency queen cells and checked with a test frame to ensure the job had been done. Requeening large colonies is a different ball game, thereof the recommendation to do it via a nuc which you did.
Thank you for sharing this horrendous experience and we all prey it does not happen to us.

Thanks beeno

I think the moral of the tale is to act quickly - or not have bees in your city garden. I may well have found said QCs but had to abandon the appropriate inspection as the bees were awful and peeps outside my garden, ie in the street and park opposite, were likely to get stung. In fact I discovered afterwards they stung 2 children and 2 adults in the garden across the road.
So I am now on the lookout for a new out apiary to rehouse them when I get them back. Any takers in the outskirts of Cardiff! - somewhere away from people so I don't have to worry.

Obee

 

[B+.]

So I am now on the lookout for a new out apiary to rehouse them when I get them back. Any takers in the outskirts of Cardiff! - somewhere away from people so I don't have to worry.

I'm sure I can find you a site in Bedfordshire. Is that far enough away from home for you?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well at least they are off your hands now. What an intro to beekeeping! Stick with it. It can't get worse Talking of queen introduction; with HM's queens I always put them in a nuc first then when she is laying unite to a hopelessly Q- colony.

 

[Obee1]

Well at least they are off your hands now. What an intro to beekeeping! Stick with it. It can't get worse Talking of queen introduction; with HM's queens I always put them in a nuc first then when she is laying unite to a hopelessly Q- colony.

Yeh the hopelessly q- colony is the bit I missed! Reason being I couldn't face hunting through them for EQC after their period without queen. So cross with myself I didn't realise I should look for eQC after the successful newspaper join. Rookie mistake! One of many

On a brighter note had to face inspecting petes overwintered nuc I bought this year. Was nervous they would misbehave, and fly over into street and park like every other bee I meet lately. However they were perfectly behaved. Their only shortcoming is they have 4 supers with two and a half of them jammed full with nectar. seems they don't fancy capping any though.

 

[Obee1]

I'm sure I can find you a site in Bedfordshire. Is that far enough away from home for you?

Sounds good. I'll bring my tent and come stay with you. You can show me the error of my ways.

 

[beeno]

Their only shortcoming is they have 4 supers with two and a half of them jammed full with nectar. seems they don't fancy capping any though.

Hi Obee1,
Get yourself or borrow a refractometer. I just harvested a quarter capped frame. The uncapped honey on it had a water content of 17%! That might cheer you up.

 

[beeno]

Sounds good. I'll bring my tent and come stay with you. You can show me the error of my ways.

Hi Obee1,
You have not done anything that millions of beeks have not done before you, but you have shown exceptional commitment to your duties towards the general public and your bees. You can come and stay with me if you like, we could camp in the garden if you like depending on your gender or age. My husband may not think it appropriate if you were a man or I might feel a bit silly if you were my age, but the offer still stands.

 

[Hawklord]

How are you getting that they were trying to supercede. The aggression started back in April and escalated. At that time there was meangreenqueen who had built up after winter to 13 brood frames. Hive was split and she kept 5 brood frames but lost foragers. By June she had built back up to 17 brood frames and got meaner each inspection. No sign of queencells until after they were made q- and requeened that same day. It was such a tall hive I wonder if the new queen at top didn't spread enough pheromone to the whole hive and they raised EQC's - or maybe they didn't like change. Probably didn't like petes queens accent. Who knows! Either way very stressful problem for a new beek to deal with.
I may just go back to my knitting.

Obee

Sorry I didn't realise it had been an on going problem. Even so the bees might not have been happy with the queen in April.

I have an agressive colony to deal with tomorrow, moved the entrance block on Monday and they all came out onto the front of the brood box.If there's a queen in there she won't be tomorrow night.

 

[Cussword]

Thanks for posting this saga Obee, it's a lesson for all us newbies, just sorry it happened to you.

 

[Obee1]

Thanks for posting this saga Obee, it's a lesson for all us newbies, just sorry it happened to you.

Me too! Sorry mostly that I came within a whisker of having em up and running with petes new queen. That bugs me more than the financial cost!
Also really lucky to have access to bee inspector as I'm doing a beekeeping course with her. Without her and her hubby I'd have had to kill the colony.