Mead and duty

[dpearce4]

if i were to make mead and sell it like my honey to friends am i duty bound to tell HM customs and pay excise duty on it? i know if i sell on a market i would its just if its friends.

 

[Chris B]

You would actually need to have a licence to sell alcohol in that way, strictly speaking that is. You would also need to register for VAT in advance and complete a quarterly return.

So don't go declaring anything unless you do it properly. A few bottles to friends is going to be well below the radar unless you draw attention to it yourself.

 

[dpearce4]

You would actually need to have a licence to sell alcohol in that way, strictly speaking that is. You would also need to register for VAT in advance and complete a quarterly return.

So don't go declaring anything unless you do it properly. A few bottles to friends is going to be well below the radar unless you draw attention to it yourself.

Have they changed VAT rules then, when i had my business 4 years ago you could be unregistered for vat if you had a turnover less than some amout per quarter. i used to be even tho my business was zero rated it ment i could claim back each quarter.

 

[Nose Ma]

VAT has little to do with it - there is duty on wine as well.

Here is a tedious page, but has all you need to know:
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...nt&id=HMCE_PROD1_025107&propertyType=document

 

[dpearce4]

yep i know there is duty but was hoping that the vat not an issue before CB said about it. as i wouldnt be selling that much of it.

 

[dpearce4]

VAT has little to do with it - there is duty on wine as well.

Here is a tedious page, but has all you need to know:
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...nt&id=HMCE_PROD1_025107&propertyType=document

see what you mean about tedious.

typical hm gov doc designed to help insomniacs lol lol lol

 

[Hombre]

@DPearce4, I suggest that you sell to your friends a collectable bottle complete with a pretty label. The contents of which are free.

One or two of your 'smarter' friends will tell you that they can get a similar bottle elsewhere for next to nothing, so invite them to buy a bottle and label elsewhere if they don't feel that it's worth the money asked.

In case the local HMRC inspector comes round, (exceedingly unlikely) you might like to keep a few empty labled bottles and offer to sell him/her one. Let them choose; same price for the full ones as the contents are free. I wonder which would be selected.

Give it away and sell the bottle, to your coterie of friends.

 

[newportbuzz]

@DPearce4, I suggest that you sell to your friends a collectable bottle complete with a pretty label. The contents of which are free.

One or two of your 'smarter' friends will tell you that they can get a similar bottle elsewhere for next to nothing, so invite them to buy a bottle and label elsewhere if they don't feel that it's worth the money asked.

In case the local HMRC inspector comes round, (exceedingly unlikely) you might like to keep a few empty labled bottles and offer to sell him/her one. Let them choose; same price for the full ones as the contents are free. I wonder which would be selected.

Give it away and sell the bottle, to your coterie of friends.

its to show that the bottle is actually fit to contain a liquid. the fact that its mead is neither here nor there.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

VAT is not a problem (if it were you'd be producing so much honey we'd all be envious and worris about the bee population wouldn't exist) I never dealt with Excise duty at source but I think there is a concession of sorts for trading with friends/family, the quantity of cider you can produce commercially before excise duty clicks in is pretty big, as I said home brew wines - not so sure and distillates (whisky, potcheen and the likes) don't even go there

 

[mexbigshow]

just don't tell anyone

 

[jasonahood]

@DPearce4, I suggest that you sell to your friends a collectable bottle complete with a pretty label. The contents of which are free.

One or two of your 'smarter' friends will tell you that they can get a similar bottle elsewhere for next to nothing, so invite them to buy a bottle and label elsewhere if they don't feel that it's worth the money asked.

In case the local HMRC inspector comes round, (exceedingly unlikely) you might like to keep a few empty labled bottles and offer to sell him/her one. Let them choose; same price for the full ones as the contents are free. I wonder which would be selected.

Give it away and sell the bottle, to your coterie of friends.

It's quite clear in the opening section of the Customs document that your still liable regardless of whether your only charging for the bottle.

"1.1 What is this notice about?

This notice explains the United Kingdom’s (UK) requirements for the duty stamping of retail containers of spirits, wine and made-wine that are intended for consumption in the UK. You should read it if you:

are an authorised warehousekeeper, a Registered Consignee, a Temporary Registered Consignee, a Registered Commercial Importer, a Commercial Importer, a Tax Representative or an owner of goods held in an excise warehouse
import or export spirits, wine or made-wine
sell spirits, wine or made-wine by wholesale or retail in the UK
are a producer or bottler, whether in the UK or abroad, of spirits destined for the UK market.

The notice contains the general conditions and requirements for businesses using duty stamps and explains the circumstances in which retail containers of spirits and wine or made-wine must, and must not, bear a stamp."

 

[greatbritishhoney]

@DPearce4, I suggest that you sell to your friends a collectable bottle complete with a pretty label. The contents of which are free.

One or two of your 'smarter' friends will tell you that they can get a similar bottle elsewhere for next to nothing, so invite them to buy a bottle and label elsewhere if they don't feel that it's worth the money asked.

In case the local HMRC inspector comes round, (exceedingly unlikely) you might like to keep a few empty labled bottles and offer to sell him/her one. Let them choose; same price for the full ones as the contents are free. I wonder which would be selected.

Give it away and sell the bottle, to your coterie of friends.

There was once a rather enterprising manager of a furniture store who decided that he could make lots more money if he could open on Sundays too (this was before Sunday opening was allowed).
Selling food on Sundays was legal but selling three-piece suites was not. So, he started selling individual carrots for £1500. Each carrot came with a free sofa and two armchairs.

All seemed very clever until trading standards came along and prosecuted him.
The moral of the story: if a way of getting around the law sounds to good to be true, then it probably is.

 

[itma]

You'd have to be daft to SELL any homebrewed alcohol.
Ever.

But friends do give each other gifts from time to time.

 

[alanf]

if i were to make mead and sell it like my honey to friends am i duty bound to tell HM customs and pay excise duty on it?

HMRC make the whole process of getting a licence and starting production very simple for small wineries. As detailed in this short note from the ever friendly HMRC: http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...nt&id=HMCE_PROD1_029568&propertyType=document

To get the licence, you are expected to have bonded premises to store your produced wine. And register all the equipment used for production. And produce monthly returns of the amount produced and the amount that leaves the bonded warehouse together with the duty payable. And produce audited accounts of all the finances.

And you will need to get the ABV alcohol content tested and certified. And produce labels with the 'units of alcohol' information and a lot of other stuff.

http://www.food.gov.uk/enforcement/sectorrules/winestandards/lawguide is a potential place to start and suggests a little light reading to get you started:

* Trade Descriptions Act 1968
* Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008
* Alcoholic Liquor Duties Act 1979
* Weights and Measures Act 1985
* Weights and Measures (Packaged Goods) Regulations 2006
* Weights and Measures (Specified Quantities) 2009
* Food Safety Act 1990
* Trade Marks Act 1994
* Food Labelling Regulations 1996
* Food (Lot Marking) Regulations 1996
* Licencing Act 2003

While you're registering with HMRC, Environmental Health and Trading Standards you might as well register as a business. And pay business rates. And register for VAT. And pay income tax on any money you take out. You will also need to make pension provision for any employees

</irony>
Seriously, there are massive bureaucratic steps in producing alcohol that are just not there with selling a few jars of honey or veg from your garden. Anything outside a bonded warehouse needs the duty paid up front for a start. And you don't even get the duty rate concessions that micro-breweries do for beer. There are wineries who will produce wine from your ingredients, http://beckhousewinery.co.uk/DutyFreeWine.aspx which gets round some of the regulation but they insist that it is not for sale. Producing for sale on a scale short of a full time job is unlikely to be worthwhile for wineries or breweries, http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/12/09/2006/97733/So-you-want-to.Start-an-on-farm-brewery.htm largely because there is a minimum effort needed to get though the paperwork requirements that have accumulated over the years.

Selling booze without going through the full procedures is also far less likely to be tolerated than selling something like honey. You only have to look at cases where 'duty free' rules have not been followed on aircraft or ships. Take even part empty bottles for personal consumption and that's instant dismissal, no appeal.

On the brighter side, there is nothing to stop you giving it away.

 

[itma]

... {Don't even think about selling alcohol.} ...

On the brighter side, there is nothing to stop you giving it away.

And you might think that a product of your own crafting was an especially suitable present to give to a friend, especially to one who had previously given you an unexpected present.

 

[biggles]

Put some apples in the mix and call it cider, after all your just replacing the sugar with honey! You can sell 7000ltrs with out any worries.

Laws on cider here http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...pertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000207#P79_7571

 

[Nose Ma]

Put some apples in the mix and call it cider, after all your just replacing the sugar with honey! You can sell 7000ltrs with out any worries.

Laws on cider here http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...pertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000207#P79_7571

But keep the apple juice in the right amount, and alcohol below 8.2%...

www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2010/pdf/uksi_20101914_en.pdf