Maqs - bad news

[Erichalfbee]

After shovelling out two colonies that had been pickled to death I can confirm Maqs had 100 percent efficacy.
The survivor of the three colonies treated had cbpv the next year.
So maybe not.

Never ever again-I will plod on with OA vaping
The hare and the tortoise fable is a good one.

I think it's a quality control issue at factory.
Things often get delegated to people who don't know it's purpose.

How much did you use?

 

[Mint Bee]

4.3 Contraindications
Do not use when peak temperatures are outside the range of 10 – 29.5°C on the day of application. See sections 4.4 and 4.5i also. Do not use for treatment of smaller colonies than those listed on the label (single or double brood-chamber, standard Langstroth equipment or equivalent full-sized honey beehives, honey bee colony cluster covering a minimum of six frames, (approximately 10,000 bees). A smaller colony might not provide sufficient volume to achieve a tolerable formic acid concentration

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...C_454694.PDF&usg=AOvVaw0ImaELDutxjw4_s8PkiAgh

As with all medicines the vendor supplies the dosing information and conditions to the purchaser. My experience is that most people don't read these and they end up in the bin.

if you follow the instructions and experience an issues with veterinary medicines they can be reported here.
https://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/adversereactionreporting/report-type
If not reported the vendor cant / doesn't have to do anything about it

same scheme works for human medicines through MHRA

 

[blackcloud]

How much did you use?

They were all around seven/eight seamed nationals so they had one pad each on top of empty super frames ,no cb's and omfs with the boards out.
It wasnt particularly hot or cold weather as I recall - late-ish summer '19 and this was well prior to wasp season.
The combs were exactly as the colonies left them as they fell to the mesh,so they weren't robbed either.
My point is the inconsistency -it killed two colonies and apparently failed to treat another.

 

[HarryO]

How much did you use?

 

[HarryO]

Two strips as stated on pack. Usually I am treating 4 to 6 hives / colonies.

1. Single National B. Box

2. OM floor. Instructions say "Screen bottom board should be closed off during treatment to optimize efficacy."

But I leave the "varroa count inspection (bottom) board" out/off the hive.
I put an "inspection tray" (of any description) on the ground under the hive and stand, to see a rough idea of how efficacious the treatment is being.

3. I always have at least one super (shallow) on.
This will be with frames without honey stores (for human use). As with new FormicPro honey for sale has to be withdrawn.
Shallow will be with either empty drawn frames or empty of frames with shallow as an eke.

4. Full width entrance.

5. I lay the strips on top of a queen excluder. ( I put Vaseline on the excluder wires to prevent corrosion from the formic acid)

6. Always check weather forecast, for temp over next week - I Use Met Office site.

7. Always apply in early evening (whilst still light) to make use of the lower night time temperatures. (I assume this will give a slower release of the "vapour?" for the first 12 hours or so.

8. I leave hives alone for the full time of the treatment just visual monitoring without any manipulations / touching of the hive.

Obviously not everyone's choice of treatment but everyone makes their own choices.
(Also a bit expensive, but short timescale - and like most interventions / treatments undertaken by beekeepers it has its Pros and Cons)

I hope I have not jinxed myself after all this time of successful use!

 

[ericbeaumont]

Single National B. Box

Do not use for treatment of smaller colonies than those listed on the label (single or double brood-chamber, standard Langstroth equipment or equivalent full-sized honey beehives, honey bee colony cluster covering a minimum of six frames, (approximately 10,000 bees). A smaller colony might not provide sufficient volume to achieve a tolerable formic acid concentration

In the early days of MAQS the US instructions for use were incompatible with smaller UK hives, which may well have led to over-dosing.

with frames without honey stores (for human use). As with new FormicPro honey for sale has to be withdrawn.

This from the MAQS Instructions on the Thorne website: Key features: Formic acid based - Use whilst supers are on - High efficacy - Dispose of with garden waste - Seven day treatment (my bold)

Thisfrom the FormicPro instructions on the Thorne website: Supers must not be present or must be removed before treatment. (Thorne bold)

MAQS and Thorne information was (and still is) plainly confusing and likely to mislead, and despite the years formic has been on the market they're still unable to decide.

My experience, having followed the instructions at the time, is at post 20 on this thread, and convinced me that the use of MAQS while supers were on was misguided marketing.

Formic may work for beekeepers willing to achieve success by nudging the variables of box and colony size, ventilation and prevailing temp., but it's still a risk product in a small market with easier alternatives.

 

[lizzie-drippin]

In addition to colonies in Nationals, I also need to treat some 5 frame (queen-right and queen-less) nucs.

Does anyone have any recommendations for this? Would you recombine nucs with stronger colonies and treat the recombined colony instead?

The nucs have an open mesh floor but only the standard round entrance hole...would this be a problem for ventilation?

I often overwinter in nucs and always vaporise with OA during winter but never had nucs at this time of the year so not used MAQS on nucs before.

Any advice would be gratefully received...(would I be better vaping with OA??)

thanks
LD

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don’t use MAQS on nucs. You can OAV from the bottom under the mesh. Just arrange something for the nucs to sit on or sublimate from the top?

 

[blackcloud]

Hare and tortoise
Maqs and oa

 

[lizzie-drippin]

Don’t use MAQS on nucs. You can OAV from the bottom under the mesh. Just arrange something for the nucs to sit on or sublimate from the top?

Isn't it an issue that OAV won't penetrate the brood whereas formic acid/MAQS does?

thanks for your reply

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Isn't it an issue that OAV won't penetrate the brood whereas formic acid/MAQS does?

just do it three or four times, there was a doubt as to whether the claim that MAQS penetrated sealed brood was that true anyway

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Don’t use MAQS on nucs. You can OAV from the bottom under the mesh. Just arrange something for the nucs to sit

I made this eke from the pontless battens that are supposed to line flatpack hive roofs, there's a slot for the varrox and I just put it on a convenient hive roof and the maisemores nuc sits on this.

 

[lizzie-drippin]

just do it three or four times, there was a doubt as to whether the claim that MAQS penetrated sealed brood was that true anyway

OK, 3/4 times between now and the end of the year? Or do you mean, one treatment straight after another?As I mentioned, I usually sublimate in Dec/Jan.

best

LD

 

[ericbeaumont]

Or do you mean, one treatment straight after another?

My understanding is that treatment is on day 1, 6, 11 and if necessary, 16.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My understanding is that treatment is on day 1, 6, 11 and if necessary, 16.

Pete Little (Hivemaker) always reccomended that if the fourth was necessary, to do it a day earlier - on day 15

 

[user 20833]

I never used MAQS but this year, in June I used Formic Pro on 10 hives (Langstroth). I'd done alcohol washes and found some hives with high mite numbers. I had missed the winter OA treatment on them. The apiaries that got OA in winter had low mites & did not need treating.

Out of 10 hives there were queen cells (no queen) in 3 of them. These were older queens that needed replacing at some point, but still. I would rather remember the winter OA and not use formic acid, but as an emergency measure it did the job.

 

[HarryO]

In the early days of MAQS the US instructions for use were incompatible with smaller UK hives, which may well have led to over-dosing.


This from the MAQS Instructions on the Thorne website: Key features: Formic acid based - Use whilst supers are on - High efficacy - Dispose of with garden waste - Seven day treatment (my bold)

Thisfrom the FormicPro instructions on the Thorne website: Supers must not be present or must be removed before treatment. (Thorne bold)

MAQS and Thorne information was (and still is) plainly confusing and likely to mislead, and despite the years formic has been on the market they're still unable to decide.

My experience, having followed the instructions at the time, is at post 20 on this thread, and convinced me that the use of MAQS while supers were on was misguided marketing.

Formic may work for beekeepers willing to achieve success by nudging the variables of box and colony size, ventilation and prevailing temp., but it's still a risk product in a small market with easier alternatives.

My understanding is that MAQS and FormicPro are two different formulations. Accordingly there are some differences in their instructions for use. It would be a mistake to conflate, confuse or mix the directions for use issued with each product.

I feel the actions/precautions I took whilst using the treatment were only to ensure I strictly followed the instructions/parameters supplied with the product. As one would do with all treatments.

A bit "belt and braces" with such things as early evening application to cover for vagaries of our weather or adding supers suggested in product instructions. But feel the 'variables' are not as much of an intervention with the product as the "tweeks" that others use when using other products.

At least my "variables are all to do with meeting the parameters of the instructions issued with the product.
External factors such as temperature, box size are all things that can be mitigated for without "messing about" with the product itself.

I am not promoting or advising / instructing people to use MAQs merely giving an account of my experiences when using it.
I was asked above "how much" I used so to pre-empt further questions I gave a summary of my "procedure" when using MAQs.

For me I found it simple to use, a practical timescale for its use for me, naturally occurring "chemical" etc.

I do though find the experiences of others related on the forum useful and take on board what is being said and try to incorporate the best practices from that in my beekeeping.

Personally I cannot reconcile the carting of batteries around and wearing chemical warfare masks as being "easier". Obviously there are simpler treatment available (or no treatment!) but everyone to their own preferable solution.

 

[ericbeaumont]

MAQS and FormicPro are two different formulations to the NOD info:

Same product ingredient:

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FORMIC PRO AND THE MITE AWAY QUICK STRIPS?
Formic Pro is the next generation product to the Mite Away Quick Strips formulation. The major
differences include the shelf life, 24-months (FP) vs. 12-months (MAQS), treatment period, 14 or 20 days
(FP) vs. 7 or 21 days (MAQS) and storage requirements, out of direct sunlight (FP) vs. under 25°C/77°F (MAQS).

The NOD application shows:

Non-PRIA (Pesticide Registration Improvement Act) Labeling Amendment – To Change
the Primary Brand Name to Formic Pro, Correct the AI Percentage in the Ingredients
Statement, and Make Minor Revisions to the Directions for Use
Product Name: Formic Pro
EPA Registration Number: 75710-3
Application Date: 02/13/2017
OPP Decision Number: 526295

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...8QFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1L_H1K5_ywnxtsObYjtiXu

Root of label confusion lies with manufacturers and is rife, as Randy Oliver reported: I’m not the first to complain that many pesticide labels are lacking in clarity, difficult to interpret, or more about liability concerns than being informational.

https://scientificbeekeeping.com/mite-control-while-honey-is-on-the-hive-part-3/

 

[magor]

do part of oxalic vaping heat transform into formic?

 

[pargyle]

do part of oxalic vaping heat transform into formic?

No..that won't happen with any of the sublimators commercially available... under pressure and under laboratory conditions it is reaction that can occur but not in they way we sublimate OA as beekeepers. Nothing to worry about there...