Manipulating for quicker spring build-up

[jd101k2000]

Hi all,

With all the fears of a second season and worries about lack of space in the hive for the queen to lay. I started to look at ways around this.

I came across this article that seems to offer extra space for the queen and speeds up the spring build-up.

http://www.oldsouthhoney.com/1/post/2012/12/tips-for-faster-spring-hive-build-up.html

I realise that this is a US article, and they do things different thar, but:
a) Would this be practical in the UK?
b) Has anyone tried it?

 

[blackcavebees]

It's called brood spreading. IF you know what you're doing it can be used effectively, I left it to my third season before trying it and you need to be very careful. I'm still very hesitant about doing it unless weather/temps and forage is spot on

 

[Chris B]

Avoid that. Nights are still going to be cold even if warm in the day.

Don't worry about lack of space for laying. Sounds like that's been seriously overemphasised somewhere. The truth is it's a self regulating problem that is unlikely at this time of year. The queen in a healthy expanding colony needs space, but she also has a colony with a huge appetite - problem solved.
I would say you'll run out of space for the bees long before the queen runs out of space to lay - that's the time to add a super.

 

[itma]

If you have a real embarrassment of stores still in the hive (like 6 frames), I'd be thinking of pulling out one or two really full ones (one at a time!) and storing them for later (wrap carefully in clingfilm, then freeze for at least 48 hours to kill wax moth, before storing away, ideally somewhere with light but not heat). Replace with a frame with foundation, placed next to one side of the brood nest.
Frames of stores are very handy to have in reserve!

But I think you are a few weeks premature - don't do this right now unless she really has NO empty comb to lay in.

 

[jd101k2000]

Thanks for the suggestions. Turns out my hives have both plenty of stores and plenty of laying space. I will see how the weather and colonies progress and decide.

 

[oliver90owner]

Basically, if there is laying space the workers will regulate the lay-rate dependent on the colony income.

That would be nectar and pollen, along with water if protein is available along with honey to be diluted.

It is naturally regulated by the weather. Brood spreading will not make a jot of difference as I see it; it might make the beekeeper happy.

Basically spreading the compact brood nest so the remaining winter bees have to heat a larger area than they might be able to manage, before new house bees emerge, seems to me to be counter-productive.

 

[domino]

I had loads of beekeeping books from christams I'm working my way through (I've got about 15 left) and I'm currently reading bees at the bottom of the garden. I was reading it today and it covered this topic.

Seems a good theory I may try it in April on one of the hives to see if it works.

 

[Finman]

Seems a good theory I may try it in April on one of the hives to see if it works.

You will only spoil your hive with that "trial". If you have 4 boxes in the hive and they are full of bees, then you may do those tricks. But it is good summer then, not spring.

That US guy lives perhaps in Florida. ...and no hive develops in couple of weeks. It takes 6-8 weeks time even in USA. To me it seems that the guy is not honest when he writes his quick happenings. Bees have their own biological speed.

But with my 50 years experience, I do not brake brood area with foundations or with extra combs. If the weather turns bad, what you perhaps get with that is disease chalkbrood.

What I do to get quick spring build up is that I feed pollen patty and warm hives with terrarium heater (7-15W electrict ) It makes 2-3 fold faster build up. But it does not work in small colonies like with 4 frames.

 

[Finman]

.

I have accustomed very well to US and Canada's spring build up advices.

Nowhere it is said that you may do it with moving frames. Nowhere!
What they do is to feed pollen patty to colonies.

Like here. British Columbia bee letter

It is said: NO foundations on side of the brood frame. It place is for pollen stores.

"Pollen is the bee's dietary source of protein and without it no brood can be raised. Combs of pollen should be placed directly beside the brood as bees will not cross an empty comb to get it. Should there be insufficient pollen in the hive, a pollen patty, pollen supplement or pollen substitute should be provided. For detailed information on feeding pollen substitutes, refer to Factsheet #410 - Nutrition and its Effect on Bee Management."

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/apiculture/factsheets/401_spring.htm

Canada: http://www.honeybeeworld.com/spring/splits.htm

 

[sunhivebee]

You will only spoil your hive with that "trial". If you have 4 boxes in the hive and they are full of bees, then you may do those tricks. But it is good summer then, not spring.

That US guy lives perhaps in Florida. ...and no hive develops in couple of weeks. It takes 6-8 weeks time even in USA. To me it seems that the guy is not honest when he writes his quick happenings. Bees have their own biological speed.

But with my 50 years experience, I do not brake brood area with foundations or with extra combs. If the weather turns bad, what you perhaps get with that is disease chalkbrood.

What I do to get quick spring build up is that I feed pollen patty and warm hives with terrarium heater (7-15W electrict ) It makes 2-3 fold faster build up. But it does not work in small colonies like with 4 frames.

Excellent advice, thank you Finman.

Relative beginners - Please READ

 

[Finman]

.
What affects on speed of spring build up?

Bees have allways the same brood cycle. It is 3 weeks. But it is first egg to first emerging. To get much new bees it takes 4 weeks. After 3 weeks from that, workers turn to foragers.

First normal 1. box is full of bees colony has perhaps 3-4 frames of brood. Many things limits the brood volume:

- cold weathers
- cold nights
- rainy or clowdy weeks. Often it is windy too in low pressure.
- lack of young feeder bees after winter
- insulation ...how big brood ball bees can keep warm

....even if there are pollen out there

I have seen that during clowdy week the hive reduces its larva feeding -50%.
Question is not about laying. The queen lays more than bees rear larvae.
Bees have habit to reduce energy consumption when weathers are bad. They may destroy all open brood but they do not tear capped brood off.

- Pollen foraging in good weathers inspire bees to rear as much brood as it is possible. But the amount of pollen and nectar stucks too brood area (rape!) and bees start to generate swarming.

- in swarming fever colony slows down brood rearing. The queen becomes slimmer and almost stops laying.

- Swarming fever reduces seriously build up when we think about main yield period.

- biggest build up reduction you get if you let bees rear their own queen and then wait that it tarts again laying. You loose several brood cycles. At same time the colony loses a bigger part of existing bees when they die naturally. YOu have very small colony when ner bees start to emerge.


- AND OF COURSE why to need quick build up if you put soon excluder into hive. Excluder does not bring honey.

 

[jd101k2000]

Again, thanks for the advice. I put the article up because I did not know... Now I have a greater understanding. Result!

 

[Finman]

.
Big or small cluster after winter

- If the hive has only 4 frames bees, it can propably rear only 2 frames of brood and they are not full. Build up is different during summer than in chilly spring.


- if the hive has 10 frames of bees, it can rear 8 frames of brood an they are more filled than in 4-frame colony.

One full frame of brood gives 3 frames of emerged bees.

from 2 frames you get perhaps 5 frames of bees and the first box is then filled and is able to make those 8 brood frames. Its build up is 3 weeks slower than with big colony.

If the hive has 8 brood frames, it gets 8x3 =24 frames new bees. It is 3 boxes full of beees when you add old bees to the amount.

This build up case takes about 6 weeks and in this case bigger hive had 3-fold build up .
The smaller colony follows at same route but it is 3-4 weeks slower in its build up.

3-box hive is able to forage surplus honey but one box hive consumes all to rear new bees.
Its rippening ability arises perhaps a month later.

.WHAT WE LEARN: DO NOT SPLIT YOU COLONY IN SPRING

 

[Finman]

Again, thanks for the advice. I put the article up because I did not know... Now I have a greater understanding. Result!

Never mind!!!. Even if the 99,9% of beeks have not read the article they have done the same mistakes. They try to encourage build up with feeding, putting foundations, putting new boxes too early, splitting too early but the colony has its biological limits.

I have done those mistakes during decades. That is why I am sure what to do.

 

[domino]

You will only spoil your hive with that "trial". If you have 4 boxes in the hive and they are full of bees, then you may do those tricks. But it is good summer then, not spring.

That US guy lives perhaps in Florida. ...and no hive develops in couple of weeks. It takes 6-8 weeks time even in USA. To me it seems that the guy is not honest when he writes his quick happenings. Bees have their own biological speed.

But with my 50 years experience, I do not brake brood area with foundations or with extra combs. If the weather turns bad, what you perhaps get with that is disease chalkbrood.

What I do to get quick spring build up is that I feed pollen patty and warm hives with terrarium heater (7-15W electrict ) It makes 2-3 fold faster build up. But it does not work in small colonies like with 4 frames.

Thanks for the detailed response - I'll leave them be then