Making National hives

[melias]

I thought an interesting winter project might be to build a National hive or two from scratch.

I don't have woodworking experience yet. So a few questions..

1) Is this too complex job for someone who hasn't got previous woodworking experience?

2) What tools are necessary?

3) Can you recommend a good book for someone starting on a such a project?

Many thanks

 

[yeogi75]

if you look on u tube you will see lots of hive building the kit you will want is possibly more expensive and than buying flat pack and assemble your self have a good look around and weigh up the time and materials to self assembly try Dave Cushman's web site lots of info and plans good luck

 

[alanf]

Always like the idea of "having a go". Most hive construction books tend to be about the author's redesign of some aspect or another. The basic plans and dimensions of the national are available as a PDF on the SBKA web site. Dave Cushman's site has more detailed drawings and cutting lists.

Were the hives you have bought ready made or inherited? With no experience at all, the simplest starter would be a self assembly 'flat' kit. If nothing else it includes the bits and pieces like mesh, roof covering and inspection slide that you'd need to get from somewhere.

As for tools, with a kit you might get away with a hammer as the only tool needed, but a tape measure is a useful addition to check it's square. A bench or workmate helps a lot, and a sash cramp or two aids when gluing and assembling. Many like to replace some of the supplied nails with screws, add a screwdriver plus drill, bits and countersink for pilot holes.

Moving on from assembling the kits, using one as a template would be a short cut if you're not used to working from plans. Using hand tools like a saw, chisels and try square is perfectly possible but there's a whole world of power saws, benches and routers out there and sales teams waiting for your call.

 

[melias]

To clarify, I've put together lots of flat-pack cedar and pine hives.
I wanted to try building a hive from cedar planks.

Thanks

 

[oliver90owner]

Forget it. Get some experience on something simple.

Boxes need to be accurate dimensionally, joints need to be good and the box needs to sit on a flat surface when completed with no gaps (or your boxes will all be different and gaps will abound).

When you say 'planks', if you mean what I think as planks, you would need planing and thicknessing skills, along with accurate jointing skills.

These are easy enough to acquire, but either need a lot of practise or the knowledge of using power tools.

I dare say I could easily enough make a good box with only a router and basic measuring tools. But that is not exactly starting from scratch, as you appear to be thinking of attempting.

As line one - get some experience first.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Would it be better to start by making a nuc? The box only needs to be compatible with frame size and itself, because they tend not to need supers. If it doesn't work too well it could be used as a tool box.

 

[DulwichGnome]

I wanted to try building a hive from cedar planks.

Thanks

Looking at other threads, cedar is not cheap when buying small quantities so you might want to practise your wood work skills on other things.

Here is a plan for a 5 frame BB I built last year. It's for Rose frames so you might need to make it taller.

I will try and upload the skp file to somewhere.

Mike.

 

[Oscarmonster]

As O90O says the boxes do need to be square, flat and well jointed, however ignore him, if you don't try it you won't know if you can do it.
A set square and a good flat surface, (ie old kitchen work surface) on which to assemble them. Treat yourself to a nice new saw, not that one thats been knocking around the shed since goodness knows when.
Dave cushmans site for measurements, but also having some spare equipment to copy helps.
Don't try cutting corners(as I did), everything about a national hive tends to be for a reason.

 

[mbc]

Considerable savings can be made (and experience gained) by building the less complicated bits, floors, roofs and crown boards would be a good start IMO.

 

[user 6228]

To clarify, I've put together lots of flat-pack cedar and pine hives.
I wanted to try building a hive from cedar planks.

Thanks

Practise on cheaper material... Be prepared to get it wrong first time but have enough enthusiasm to persevere. Look for simple designs and joints that are easier to get right. Have a go.

 

[itma]

Considerable savings can be made (and experience gained) by building the less complicated bits, floors, roofs and crown boards would be a good start IMO.

Crown boards, rhombus clearer boards and feeder boards are easy and worthwhile.
Floors allow you to build something better than you could buy - like a "Dartington-type" (undershot) entrance floor.
And roofs allow you to build something with integral insulation and maybe better looks than the usual styles.

All these can be built with relative ease, simple joints and relatively loose tolerances!

Next time you are building a National super flatpack, take a look at the detailing on some of the parts (like those bottom bars) and ask yourself if you could make two of those, accurately the same, as each other and the spec, to less than a millimetre.


Some hive designs (Smith, Commercial and Langstroth come to mind) were created with simple carpentry in mind. The National wasn't!

 

[blackcavebees]

Considerable savings can be made (and experience gained) by building the less complicated bits, floors, roofs and crown boards would be a good start IMO.

I've made a couple of hives now from scratch and now I just make the floors, roofs, crown boards, and the odd super. If you look at the sales, there are brood boxes for sale for what the material would cost you in B&Q. Joinery needs to be exact to ensure everything is bee tight. If you are getting the materials for nothing .... That's different, but best to KISS If you can.

Have fun

Ps, I've had a go making frames at the encouragement of Hivemaker and they didn't turn out bad at all! Lot of enjoyment to be had from making your own kit

Stephen

 

[oliver90owner]

however ignore him

My advice was to try something simpler first. It still is. Jumping in at the deep end may work for some but there would be some who just would drown.

Progression to hive boxes in due course was not excluded. You just have to spit it out clearly and bluntly or posters don't understand the message. Just look back at sir quej first post and now see what he thinks of his initial idea now! As an example).

Too many people 'egging on' when they have little idea (or no idea at all) as to the competence of a particular person.

 

[Oscarmonster]

Just because you struggle to make a hive with basic tools doesn't mean someone who has never picked up a saw couldn't do it.
Telling him to forget it is hardly encouragement. As for egging him on, what has he got to lose by having a go. By all means start with simple parts first.

 

[oliver90owner]

Just because you struggle to make a hive with basic tools

Thanks.

You might, but I would not and don't. I have progressed a little further than the basic tools thank you very much.

 

[Oscarmonster]

Maybe my tools bigger than yours.

 

[REDWOOD]

It's not about size but the way you use it.........tools,
I agree with other replies if you have no wood working skills then start of with scrap bits of wood to get the feel for it, practice making joints, gluing drilling and screwing.
hives have to be square and true so frames and other parts when assembled maintain correct bee space. Once mastered have a look at the plans on post 12 of the thread below. good luck and don't forget the plasters
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16932&page=2

 

[BKF Admin]

I make everything myself,Hives frames ect.
The only stuff I buy Is foundation,Metal roof tin and frame runners.

It can be done with practice.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

I make everything myself,Hives frames ec.

Whenever do you get time, Admin?

Dusty

 

[REDWOOD]

Whenever do you get time, Admin?

Dusty

in between reading and when he's not