Lost colony

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would, like others have said, suggest that the OP gets a mentor

Or change the one he has!

 

[Dishmop]

Where has the forum gone wrong over the past year?

Ground Hog Day.

 

[Chris B]

FWIW Geohorn,
Seems to me you've been unluckier than most. If you made a mistake it was many months ago, and nothing to do with matchsticks. Fortunately for the rest of us our mistakes usually go unpunished as the bees correct things for us, leading us to think we are better beekeepers than we really are. Chin up! And consider getting two colonies going next time.

 

[mbc]

FWIW Geohorn,
Seems to me you've been unluckier than most. If you made a mistake it was many months ago, and nothing to do with matchsticks. Fortunately for the rest of us our mistakes usually go unpunished as the bees correct things for us, leading us to think we are better beekeepers than we really are. Chin up! And consider getting two colonies going next time.

Two colonies are better than one,- even if you have to unite the two to make one decent overwintering colony, the best thing for bees to overwinter successfully is more bees- take little notice of the criticism of the matchsticks, having weatherproof hives is more important than insulation IMO and you've already stated your hive was dry inside, and bear in mind no one keeps livestock for long without encountering deadstock, whatever their tall tales !
Beginning with good stock is probably the most important factor in success or failure, as ChrisB says, good bees will correct things for us and do much of the rest.

 

[Amari]

Geohorn,you observed plenty of bees when you applied oxalic acid. Any chance that the solution was incorrectly made up i.e. too strong?

 

[Geohorn]

I purchased the solution from Fragile Planet and applied exactly as instructed. Can't add anymore to that. I still have the bottle and will check the solution strength but it was premixed with a syringe included.

 

[Amari]

Agree, mixture likely to be OK.
I agree with what others have said above: beekeeping is more fun if you have 2,3 or 4 hives rather than one.

 

[Pete D]

Hi geohorn, any update on my questions, and I added some to the oxalic one.

So when was the last time you saw a good worker brood pattern.
Was there any brood of any stage / type when you found them dead
Were all frames drawn out in brood box.
Foul brood ? Nosema, get some tested.
What has your mentor said maybe the problem.

Where did you get your oxalic and how did you apply it, dose size ?
Ok I know fragile planet, but how much did you give them, chap near me got his 5 ml mixed up with 50ml, it wasn't till he said it was easier using multiple syringes that I realised he had bathed them

Cheers[/QUOTE]

 

[beeno]

Hi Geohorn,
So sorry that you have lost your bees particularly since you only had the one hive. It happened to me, because all the "experienced" beeks told me not to worry - "bees don't swarm this time of the year". So, I had stopped looking for swarm cells. Well, mine did on the 4th Sept 2011 and this will somewhat colour my assessment of your situation.
Thus, I do find myself agreeing with ChrisB.
1. Feeding - Swarming in May suggests to me that you may have overfed your colony. The advice often seems to be feed, feed, feed when you buy a nuc or a colony. I guess if you are thinking about splitting a colony you will do that in order to get the maximum amount of bees. But it can back-fire on you.
2. Swarm control - As a newbie myself, I find it extremely difficult to find an unmarked queen and easy to miss a queen cell. In September you state no brood and six frames of honey. (The opposite to that is no stores and lots of brood which you can easily remedy by feeding.) Alarm bells should have started to ring, because you are either Q- or you have a virgin in there according to the books! Saying that, it is not always true as we have had that situation in our apiary and low and behold there she is our marked queen having a brood break! But you cannot afford to take that chance in September and you should have tried a test frame which is not easy with one hive as you need some kind soul to give you one! If they had built a queen cell from it you could have bought a laying queen.
3. Cluster size - A small cluster size cannot move readily to where the stores are or indeed a larger cluster size will not move away from brood. Because of that I take no chances and put fondant rolled out to cover the whole area of the top bars, so that the bees have easy access to it wherever they choose to cluster thus avoiding isolation starvation.
Your summer bees could have been late in dying off as they did not have any brood to fetch and carry for and the mild weather, thereof the difference in bees between beginning of October and end of October. When my bees dwindled and died due to virgin not getting mated in 2011 they died in January too.
4. OA situation may only be because you chilled a small cluster since you have not seen any signs of nosema.
Don't beat yourself up about it though, there is not a beek out there which this has not happened to! Lots and lots of luck for the coming season.

 

[Hivemaker.]

4. OA situation may only be because you chilled a small cluster since you have not seen any signs of nosema.

What signs of Nosema ceranae would you expect to see.

 

[beeno]

What signs of Nosema ceranae would you expect to see.

Hi Hivemaker,
Well, I have always been told by far more experienced beeks than myself that one would expect fecal staining inside the hive particularly on the top bars in the case of a bad case of Nosema (apis). A dwindling colony could be a sign of Nosema, but you would expect a large reduction in bees for other reasons too. Most colonies in this country carry some level of nosema, but it only becomes a problem when bees are under stress according to bee inspector. Ultimately, it is only diagnosed under a microscope, but as MM found out more or less all colonies are carriers even if it does not kill the colony.
If you told me, as the experienced beek that you are, that your colony had Nosema then I would believe you, as you would have got everything else correct, but newbies don't. Geohorn is sending off a sample, and sure as eggs are eggs it will be positive. However, not everyone with HIV develop Aids or other deceases for that matter. So, the cause of death could be something altogether different and beekeeper related that's all I am saying. Thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That'll be 'I don't know' then

 

[pargyle]

That'll be 'I don't know' then

He should have gone to :

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=389440#post389440

All you need to know about Nosema Ceranae - and Apis ...

The joy of this forum !

 

[oliver90owner]

Spot on!

 

[Arfermo]

You can never have enough insulation and the best way to ensure a colony survives winter is to ensure that the hive is completely draughtproof.

That is simply a matter of opinion. I never have used any insulation beyond dummy boards and have never lost a colony from that cause on it's own. People seem to go overboard on insulation and in various places it is said that makes the bees cluster less tightly and devour more stores. BBKA News and Beecraft as well as websites have said so. Can't be botherd to find links to throw at readers but they are there if you want to look.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes, but there's insulating,not insulating, and turning your hive into a cooling tower.
As for BBKA news - it has a glaring similarity to cold boiled quail's eggs - best taken with a pinch of salt

 

[user 6228]

That is simply a matter of opinion. I never have used any insulation beyond dummy boards and have never lost a colony from that cause on it's own. People seem to go overboard on insulation and in various places it is said that makes the bees cluster less tightly and devour more stores. BBKA News and Beecraft as well as websites have said so. Can't be botherd to find links to throw at readers but they are there if you want to look.

no its not a matter of opinion, that insulation reduces stores consumption in winter.
It was be proven in a scientific study a long time ago.
This idea that stores consumption goes is up is a misunderstanding of the published metabolic curves of bees, the properties of heat and heat flow, and the activity factors for bees.
I have quoted the references to this many times on this forum.

The BBKA news is not a valid authority on efficacy of insulation.

 

[beeno]

That'll be 'I don't know' then

Hi Jenkins,
In case this is directed at me, I would just like to add that no one knows. However, I think it is useful to consider other possibilities in this case as we are dealing with a newbie. As soon as there is a problem these days with a dwindling colony it is Nosema or a Nosemic Queen.

 

[drstitson]

"BBKA News and Beecraft"

those bastions of evidence based advice.

matchsticks anyone?

 

[beeno]

He should have gone to :

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=389440#post389440

All you need to know about Nosema Ceranae - and Apis ...

The joy of this forum !

Hi pargyle,
I have just read some of this which is not my domain, but we have other people on the forum that can interpret the values stated with ease I am sure. When it comes to "RR values. An association is generally considered weak if the odds ratio (Relative Risk) is under 3." Would welcome comments on this and the report by someone expert.