Long hive project/ making nucs thoughts

[BigAshW]

Mods please move if you think this is in the wrong section.

Hi hive mind,

I recently watched a YouTube video on constructing an insulated long hive and having seen other bits and pieces on long hives I started to play around with an idea for using one to make up nucs for winter.

So my current thoughts are to make a fully insulated long hive with a ply inner box and timber outer box with celotex sandwiched in the middle.

The hive would hold 36 commercial deep frames (all my other kit is commercial) plus division boards and be possible to split into six six frame nucs with disc entrances.

The roof would need to be deep enough to hold a feeder, (thinking the maisemore jumbo feeder as it has two holes so could feed two nucs at once, so three of those feeds all six), during winter the feeders are replaced by insulation.

So I guess I'm asking you guys what are the pitfalls of long hives?

If a decent over wintered nuc was put in the hive at the start of the season would it build up enough to split six ways to overwinter or do I reduce the number of divisions?

This is just me kicking ideas around inside my head and asking for input from you all so please don't just say it's rubbish and not be constructive. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel just having some fun with the hobby.

Thanks in advance for any input you might have.

 

[Murox]

Interesting ideas. I run some long deep insulated hives built similarly to your proposals. They work fine - as long hives with the limitations that type come with. The length of the hive might be an issue, however as you suggested running it in lots of six frames as it might be fine, around four feet long seems to be the max length, but I think you are being over ambitious with the total number of frames. Before you build anything have a good read/look at historic long hives internationally and how they were managed/manipulated. One thing to consider carefully is the floor, or rather how you will access it to give it the occasional clean; and of course how you will keep each area above the 6 frames separated when under one roof both with and without a feeder in place.
I'm sure Pargyle will have some salient comments to make as well.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mods please move if you think this is in the wrong section.

Hi hive mind,

I recently watched a YouTube video on constructing an insulated long hive and having seen other bits and pieces on long hives I started to play around with an idea for using one to make up nucs for winter.

So my current thoughts are to make a fully insulated long hive with a ply inner box and timber outer box with celotex sandwiched in the middle.

The hive would hold 36 commercial deep frames (all my other kit is commercial) plus division boards and be possible to split into six six frame nucs with disc entrances.

The roof would need to be deep enough to hold a feeder, (thinking the maisemore jumbo feeder as it has two holes so could feed two nucs at once, so three of those feeds all six), during winter the feeders are replaced by insulation.

So I guess I'm asking you guys what are the pitfalls of long hives?

If a decent over wintered nuc was put in the hive at the start of the season would it build up enough to split six ways to overwinter or do I reduce the number of divisions?

This is just me kicking ideas around inside my head and asking for input from you all so please don't just say it's rubbish and not be constructive. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel just having some fun with the hobby.

Thanks in advance for any input you might have.

Talk to @pargyle
He did something similar and has lots of pictures

 

[pargyle]

Somebody called ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99514363@N06/albums/72157634865981506
The maximum number of frames (mine are 14 x 12) is generally 25 or thereabouts - ideal for the big colonies that LDH produce and a nice size to split into two good size colonies or three decent nucs. I've split mine in two on a numbe of occasions - often thought about three but I have entrances back front and middle of the long sides so it might be a bit dodgy doing a three way.

OP might be a bit enthusiastic with 30 + frames and making a lot of 6 frame nucs. However - it's an interesting concept. Long hives are great for producing bees ... they make LOTS of bees so I don't think there's any issues with how a colony will grow through the season ...might just need to temper the split down a little.

I like my hinged apex roof - it takes a 2 litre rapid feeder - and it gets stuffed with Kingspan - indeed I have a 50mm Kingspan sheet with a hole cut for a feeder. The hinged roof is harder to make but worth it. Or have a look at Roger Dartington's designs for a two part lid/roof that could be hinged from either end.

Lots of positives - everyone should have an LDH at some point in their beekeeping. Nice to use and the bees like them - sandwich construction produces a very warm box as well. Mine has victorian floorboards on the inside and pallet boards on the outside with 25mm of polystyrene as the core. Works well .. if I was making another the core would be kingspan.

One downside ... they weigh a ton ... once full of bees and comb - it's two very strong men or four average to move it ! And ... as honey producers they are less productive than the equivlaent vertical hive.

 

[BigAshW]

Somebody called ?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99514363@N06/albums/72157634865981506
The maximum number of frames (mine are 14 x 12) is generally 25 or thereabouts - ideal for the big colonies that LDH produce and a nice size to split into two good size colonies or three decent nucs. I've split mine in two on a numbe of occasions - often thought about three but I have entrances back front and middle of the long sides so it might be a bit dodgy doing a three way.

OP might be a bit enthusiastic with 30 + frames and making a lot of 6 frame nucs. However - it's an interesting concept. Long hives are great for producing bees ... they make LOTS of bees so I don't think there's any issues with how a colony will grow through the season ...might just need to temper the split down a little.

I like my hinged apex roof - it takes a 2 litre rapid feeder - and it gets stuffed with Kingspan - indeed I have a 50mm Kingspan sheet with a hole cut for a feeder. The hinged roof is harder to make but worth it. Or have a look at Roger Dartington's designs for a two part lid/roof that could be hinged from either end.

Lots of positives - everyone should have an LDH at some point in their beekeeping. Nice to use and the bees like them - sandwich construction produces a very warm box as well. Mine has victorian floorboards on the inside and pallet boards on the outside with 25mm of polystyrene as the core. Works well .. if I was making another the core would be kingspan.

One downside ... they weigh a ton ... once full of bees and comb - it's two very strong men or four average to move it ! And ... as honey producers they are less productive than the equivlaent vertical hive.

Thanks Pargyle. I'm definitely going to give my ideas a go and see how thing pan out. Will reduce the frames down to thirty though

Maybe I could potentially could make an early split to put in the other end and build the hive from both ends then effectively split two colonies into five six frame nucs for the winter?

Would like to think that it could be an efficient way of reproducing a line of bees that I like coming out of winter with potentially five nucs to transfer to full hives at other apiaries although transferring them a to a new box maybe awkward.

 

[pargyle]

Reply

Thanks Pargyle. I'm definitely going to give my ideas a go and see how thing pan out. Will reduce the frames down to thirty though

Maybe I could potentially could make an early split to put in the other end and build the hive from both ends then effectively split two colonies into five six frame nucs for the winter?

Would like to think that it could be an efficient way of reproducing a line of bees that I like coming out of winter with potentially five nucs to transfer to full hives at other apiaries although transferring them a to a new box maybe awkward.

Go for it, they are your bees ... I still think its a bit ambitious to look at producing so many nucs ... if you are looking at raising your own queens from the colony then you are going to have to split the colony very early ..If, as you say, you are going to start off with an overwintered nuc then you are probably looking at June/July before they would have sufficient volume to split ... but splitting then to the levels you are suggesting will probably not give you enough bees in each part to then create the queens you need and enough volume to raise the colonies to overwinter. I would still be inclined to stick to two or three as a maximum. If you were looking at buying in mated queens in June/July you would have more chance of success. Or you need to look at queen rearing with a Jenter kit or similar ... but - you might want to try that with a bigger established colony rather than an overwintered nuc. If you are not careful you will end up with stressed bees and they are not going to be the best ...

 

[drex]

I too think you are being a bit ambitious with your number of splits. A golden rule is that each side of the split needs a viable number of bees. What is viable depends on several factors, including the size of the box they go in. I will make up 2-5 frame splits, depending on what I am intending them for. Small splts can be slow to build. More bees make more bees. I have learned a lot by running top bar hives that I would not through conventional hives ( of which I have many more)

 

[Herbalist]

Mods please move if you think this is in the wrong section.

Hi hive mind,

I recently watched a YouTube video on constructing an insulated long hive and having seen other bits and pieces on long hives I started to play around with an idea for using one to make up nucs for winter.


Thanks in advance for any input you might have.

I have a successful long-hive. If I were you I would not use plywood for the main chamber. Plywood is prone to delaminate when it is kept moist. The bees create a lot of humidity. It is also prone to mould growth. I used 20mm pine sealed with Danish oil and when dry, yacht varnish over the top.
My hive (pictures below) uses Commercial frames too. It has a 45 degree roof and a 6 cm overhang to quickly shed water. My hive of 115 cm long. Any longer than that will give you transport problems (unless you hire a hearse). A roof .like mine is heavy - even though it is hinged, so I added a gas ram. This has worked really well. My 5' 2" daughter can lift it with just two fingers.
I see no reason that you cannot put multiple nucs in it. I have considered using the back end in early summer for the temporary housing of any captured swarm.
The legs are 20 degree splayed to give it stability. Without that splay when the roof is hinged back the hive is unstable. There are loads of other construction issues that you will need to address to pull this off. Too many to address here - but if you want to PM me at [email protected] I may be able to help you along the path with dimensions and pitfall avoidance (I know because I think that I fell into every one of them).

 

[BigAshW]

I have a successful long-hive. If I were you I would not use plywood for the main chamber. Plywood is prone to delaminate when it is kept moist. The bees create a lot of humidity. It is also prone to mould growth. I used 20mm pine sealed with Danish oil and when dry, yacht varnish over the top.
My hive (pictures below) uses Commercial frames too. It has a 45 degree roof and a 6 cm overhang to quickly shed water. My hive of 115 cm long. Any longer than that will give you transport problems (unless you hire a hearse). A roof .like mine is heavy - even though it is hinged, so I added a gas ram. This has worked really well. My 5' 2" daughter can lift it with just two fingers.
I see no reason that you cannot put multiple nucs in it. I have considered using the back end in early summer for the temporary housing of any captured swarm.
The legs are 20 degree splayed to give it stability. Without that splay when the roof is hinged back the hive is unstable. There are loads of other construction issues that you will need to address to pull this off. Too many to address here - but if you want to PM me at [email protected] I may be able to help you along the path with dimensions and pitfall avoidance (I know because I think that I fell into every one of them).

Thank you for this. Some interesting thoughts and great looking hive.

 

[pargyle]

I have a successful long-hive. If I were you I would not use plywood for the main chamber. Plywood is prone to delaminate when it is kept moist. The bees create a lot of humidity. It is also prone to mould growth. I used 20mm pine sealed with Danish oil and when dry, yacht varnish over the top.
My hive (pictures below) uses Commercial frames too. It has a 45 degree roof and a 6 cm overhang to quickly shed water. My hive of 115 cm long. Any longer than that will give you transport problems (unless you hire a hearse). A roof .like mine is heavy - even though it is hinged, so I added a gas ram. This has worked really well. My 5' 2" daughter can lift it with just two fingers.
I see no reason that you cannot put multiple nucs in it. I have considered using the back end in early summer for the temporary housing of any captured swarm.
The legs are 20 degree splayed to give it stability. Without that splay when the roof is hinged back the hive is unstable. There are loads of other construction issues that you will need to address to pull this off. Too many to address here - but if you want to PM me at [email protected] I may be able to help you along the path with dimensions and pitfall avoidance (I know because I think that I fell into every one of them).

Like the gas ram ... really good idea.

I used a chain and a window stay for the same reason ....

 

[Garry R]

I made a stand to take my honey settling tank and also use it for jarring the honey. The top is hinged so as the tank empties the tank moves from the horizontal onto a forward angle using a couple of gas rams on the base the tank sits on. A couple of dowels at the front stop the tank sliding off. It saves a lot of time and prevents scum/bubbles going into the jars