Let's talk bee poo

[Curly green finger's]

Hi I wanted to start a thread on what to look for if you think you have disentry in a colony.

I say this because I'm sure I've one and this is a first since I've started.
If you've photos that would be even better cheers.

I've one colony that hasn't taken cleansing fliets much only twice since boxing day,
And I noticed that in comparison there bee poo is rather runny when excreated and almost creamy colour.
Any advice and your thoughts pls.
Thanks.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi I wanted to start a thread on what to look for if you think you have disentry in a colony.

I say this because I'm sure I've one and this is a first since I've started.
If you've photos that would be even better cheers.

I've one colony that hasn't taken cleansing fliets much only twice since boxing day,
And I noticed that in comparison there bee poo is rather runny when excreated and almost creamy colour.
Any advice and your thoughts pls.
Thanks.

Dysentery you’ll see splattered on the frames, top bars at the entrance and on your omf. Normal poo is orange creamy colour and you do see odd spots at entrance and in the hive roof if the bees are in a hurry

 

[drex]

Only two cleansing flights this year? That suggests the colony is rather weak and might need some help. On a good day I would open them up and see what is going on. Then perhaps post again.

 

[thedozzer]

Ours have a favourite holly bush just behind their hives that hey seem to favour for a poo station, and i can confirm form the deposits on the leaves that the poo ranges from dark orange to quite light cream colour, and i am amazed the length of poo that can come out of a tiny insect!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ours have a favourite holly bush just behind their hives that hey seem to favour for a poo station,

Mine seem to have a liking for SWMBO's Mini Cooper convertible - they leave my truck virtually unblemished

 

[E&MBees]

Mine took aim at the clean towels hanging on the line the other day!

 

[Millet]

Mine took aim at the clean towels hanging on the line the other day!

The little devils might have ran out of toilet paper..

 

[masterBK]

dysentery photos

 

[Curly green finger's]

Thanks for the photos mbk.. And for the replys.
I plan to look at them tomorrow and will get some pictures.
Cheers

 

[Curly green finger's]

dysentery photos

Hi mbk after my inspection there was minimal bee poo on the top bars, none on the inside of the crownboard, nothing on the omf floor.
This colony was very honey bound and there was 7 seams of bee's I would say only 2 frames with bias.
Ive come to the conclusion that this was the problem and maybe have had slight dysentery because of this??

Sorry I didn't get any photos

 

[Murox]

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-causes-dysentery-in-honey-bees-part-1/#_Toc21786093
Taken from Randy Oliver
Why Would A Colony Exhibit Signs Of Dysentery?
By nature, honey bees are fastidiously clean within the hive. This is extremely important for a colony of eusocial insects, what with so many bodies packed into a small cavity for long periods of time. Therefore, there has been strong evolutionary pressure for bees to avoid defecating within the hive. Thus even young nurse bees take short “cleansing flights” to relieve themselves — but generally-not-on the hive itself. In general, it’s only when the bees have been constrained by weather from flying out to void (or when a colony is really sick), that you see the telltale signs.
Experts have blamed dysentery on any number of factors. Allow me to quote Dr. White
When discussing nosema and dysentery, one thing to keep clear is that the nosema parasite reproduces and grows in the bee midgut (ventriculus) — only its inert spores show up in the hindgut (rectum). Dysentery (diarrhea), on the other hand, is a sign of a disorder of the hindgut, apparently due to chemical irritation, microbial dysbiosis, a poorly-digested diet, a sudden switch to a pollen that is irritating, or to which the bee gut microbiota were not adapted, consumption of a honeydew containing complex sugars, minerals, or other phytochemicals, or an infection by yeast or-Malpighamoeba mellificae.
Wow, that’s quite a list! Nowadays you can add poorly-digested pollen subs, contaminated or fermented sugar syrup (containing yeasts or other fungi, molasses, flavorings, or floor sweepings), or some of the homebrew potions that beekeepers feed their colonies. Unfortunately, most authors that list causes of dysentery fail to provide citations of supportive evidence to back those claims, so let’s go over what I could find …

 

[Curly green finger's]

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-causes-dysentery-in-honey-bees-part-1/#_Toc21786093
Taken from Randy Oliver
Why Would A Colony Exhibit Signs Of Dysentery?
By nature, honey bees are fastidiously clean within the hive. This is extremely important for a colony of eusocial insects, what with so many bodies packed into a small cavity for long periods of time. Therefore, there has been strong evolutionary pressure for bees to avoid defecating within the hive. Thus even young nurse bees take short “cleansing flights” to relieve themselves — but generally-not-on the hive itself. In general, it’s only when the bees have been constrained by weather from flying out to void (or when a colony is really sick), that you see the telltale signs.
Experts have blamed dysentery on any number of factors. Allow me to quote Dr. White
When discussing nosema and dysentery, one thing to keep clear is that the nosema parasite reproduces and grows in the bee midgut (ventriculus) — only its inert spores show up in the hindgut (rectum). Dysentery (diarrhea), on the other hand, is a sign of a disorder of the hindgut, apparently due to chemical irritation, microbial dysbiosis, a poorly-digested diet, a sudden switch to a pollen that is irritating, or to which the bee gut microbiota were not adapted, consumption of a honeydew containing complex sugars, minerals, or other phytochemicals, or an infection by yeast or-Malpighamoeba mellificae.
Wow, that’s quite a list! Nowadays you can add poorly-digested pollen subs, contaminated or fermented sugar syrup (containing yeasts or other fungi, molasses, flavorings, or floor sweepings), or some of the homebrew potions that beekeepers feed their colonies. Unfortunately, most authors that list causes of dysentery fail to provide citations of supportive evidence to back those claims, so let’s go over what I could find …

Many thanks murox, I removed some of the capping on the corner of one of the frames I replaced, it wasn't fermenting.
Heres something to think about and something I won't be doing again.. At Xmas time I put 2kgs of fondant as a belt and brasses aprouch the colony had stores
This colony were F0 amms, split last year for increase not as swarm prevention.. Both colonys went into winter strong enough.

The nuc I took from this colony is my strongest nuc now and I've just recently had to put them into a full hive.

Is it worth me doing a nosemia test M.

 

[Murox]

In my neck of the woods I feed thymolated syrup during the autumn, this year that meant late August through to approx mid Nov when they stopped taking it in. I used oxalic vapour around 21 Dec and only checked stores later in Jan on a warmish day. they still had plenty. I gave a little fondant since then and some pollen sub as spring proper where they are is always about 3 weeks later than sea level - plus we were already socially distancing ourselves and knew it might get awkward.
If you have access to a microscope a look for nosema might put your mind at rest - an interesting diversion anyway.

 

[beeno]

Is it worth me doing a nosemia test M.

We should all be doing Nosema testing as a matter of course, as colonies with Nosema should not be bred from in order to improve disease resistance in the national stock.

 

[Curly green finger's]

In my neck of the woods I feed thymolated syrup during the autumn, this year that meant late August through to approx mid Nov when they stopped taking it in. I used oxalic vapour around 21 Dec and only checked stores later in Jan on a warmish day. they still had plenty. I gave a little fondant since then and some pollen sub as spring proper where they are is always about 3 weeks later than sea level - plus we were already socially distancing ourselves and knew it might get awkward.
If you have access to a microscope a look for nosema might put your mind at rest - an interesting diversion anyway.

Cheers Murox, I don't have a microscope but I could do a field test I know there not definitive , but I've done them before .
Does anyone mind me posting pictures ?? To some they might not like to see them?
Beeno your probably right but how many would ..
Much the same as I don't use thymol in syrup , should that be a matter of course as you put it.

 

[Murox]

some further reading http://www.fao.org/3/CA3136EN/ca3136en.pdf

 

[Apiarisnt]

Nosema ceranae symptoms

some further reading http://www.fao.org/3/CA3136EN/ca3136en.pdf

" Typical [of an infection by Nosema Ceranae] is the absence of diarrhea in foraging bees" (p.4/5)


compare this with

"In this study, the symptoms traditionally attributed
to N. apis infection (faecal marks, dead and
sick crawling bees) were observed in the majority
of N. ceranae-infected colonies."

from

Jevrosima Stevanovic, Predrag Simeunovic, Bojan Gajic, Nada Lakic, Dejan Radovic, et al.. Characteristics of Nosema ceranae infection in Serbian honey bee colonies. Apidologie, Springer Verlag, 2013, 44 (5), p. 531

 

[beeno]

Cheers Murox, I don't have a microscope but I could do a field test I know there not definitive , but I've done them before .
Does anyone mind me posting pictures ?? To some they might not like to see them?
Beeno your probably right but how many would ..
Much the same as I don't use thymol in syrup , should that be a matter of course as you put it.

Many associations do just that in spring.