Let's allow bees to swarm !

[Hivemaker.]

There are problems in the USA ... perhaps not on the scale that the media would have you believe but they are there.

Size for size comparison, i don't believe there are any more problems in the USA than there are in the UK.

 

[pargyle]

Size for size comparison, i don't believe there are any more problems in the USA than there are in the UK.

Well ... there's something going on over there in some places ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/05/14/honeybees-dying-situation-unheard-of/

 

[Hivemaker.]

Well ... there's something going on over there in some places ...

And there was something going on here a couple of years ago, colony losses were huge, thousands died, many individuals losing hundreds of colonies.

 

[pargyle]

And there was something going on here a couple of years ago, colony losses were huge, thousands died, many individuals losing hundreds of colonies.

As I recall .. mainly weather related, near 30% colony loss across the UK ... a very late and very wet spring .. lots of colonies running out of food and nosema rampant.

Can't say that about California though ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

As I recall .. mainly weather related, near 30% colony loss across the UK ... a very late and very wet spring .. lots of colonies running out of food and nosema rampant.

Can't say that about California though ?

Like i said, size for size comparison, i rekon we had bigger losses than USA, and how many losses would we have had this winter, if it had been as severe as theirs in the north.

 

[Eyeman]

The majority of beekeepers will control where the colony swarms to, but only when they see queen cells. They do it by moving an 'artificial swarm' to another box in the apiary, rather than letting the bees just take off to some random site, somewhere in the neighbourhood, where they could be thought a nuisance, and could end up being destroyed.

I've heard this now from 2 bee inspectors. "Most beekeepers do not practice any recognisable form of swarm control"! I was quiet surprised when I heard this a second time.

The reality you need to grasp is that, in the UK, without beekeepers there would be a whole lot less bees than there are now.

Perhaps without the beekeeper the bees wouldn't have bee exposed to varroa. SHB etc so there would be a lot more feral colonies, akin to the bumble bee!

 

[alldigging]

I've heard this now from 2 bee inspectors. "Most beekeepers do not practice any recognisable form of swarm control"! I was quiet surprised when I heard this a second time.

Two beekeeps from one local association both told me they were using the 'just let them go' method of dealing with swarms.

Not suitable for anyone IMO in a residential area as whilst some people are not bothered, a lot of people will be alarmed by the site of a swarm.

And if there's not suitable natural homes for them then they'll find unnatural one like walls and roofs and chimneys. Which is not good for them ultimately when homeowners get fed up with them.

 

[domino]

I manage swarming for a few reasons:

1. improves my stock
2. I'd be mortified if my bees swarmed into someones property and caused damage

I'm not allowing them to swarm has any great benefit to the feral population.

Each to their own.

 

[wessexmario]

My point I'd that if a person near a rural location gets a swarm should he just not let it "bee" ?

My understanding is that you are asking "why collect swarms, rather than leave them in the wild?".

If a swarm is collected, then it can be looked after, diseases managed, and more colonies created from it by splitting.
If a swarm isn't collected, then we have no idea whether that colony will be successful or not.

There's no "this way is better than the other", just that we know the results of collecting a swarm is likely to be at least as beneficial for the colony and bees in general as leaving it to be feral.

 

[Finman]

.
Yeah!

Burn your backyard hives and start to collect wild honey from cavities and shurch chimneys!

Let you cows to run away and brake all fences. ( India )

Forget domestication of animals. Bye food from Lidl.

 

[Ely]

Hi, I'm a New-Bee so please be patient and understand my ignorance. If the world is short of bees and the natural way of bees multiplying is swarming, why do we not encourage it ?
Shouldn't we stack up a super or two, collect a bit of honey for our larder and encourage swarming.
Of course if a swarm lands on a hospital or school then remove it and re home them.
If we as beekeepers are about supporting and helping nature are we not doing actually the opposite ?

Why would I lose swarms to the wild when I can provide them a home where I can build them up and look after them with optimal chances of survival? It's a mutually beneficial relationship. The role of a beekeeper does not include losing his/her stock(on purpose). If it were otherwise I would not call them beekeepers.

 

[thenovice]

RodBromiley,

you have touched a nerve here it seems.

most people on here are keeping bees for honey so swarm control is necessary to obtain a crop so they will shoot your idea for that reason

apart from being a nuisance to the general public, it is not the most effective way to increase bee colonies. its a bit like fish spawning a 1000 ofspring to have 1 survive and procreate. with the diseases we have (imported) you are very likely to go from 1 colony to none as prime swarm is killed because in chimney, 1st cast dies in cold weather, 2nd cast dies of varroa and the parent hive succumbs because there is not a viable colony left.

by all means, buy yourself a piece of woodland, leave the old trees to rot and seed it with bees (check they are pure Amms though) and make it friendly for other pollinators. Yes they will incubate diseases that my bees will catch but I rest assured that they are more likely to catch that from mismanaged hives in my urban area.

personally, I see a guaranteed future for the honey bee rather in multiplying skilled beekeepers than feral colonies. Both can and should be able to co exist though.

 

[beeno]

RodBromiley,

you have touched a nerve here it seems.

most people on here are keeping bees for honey so swarm control is necessary to obtain a crop so they will shoot your idea for that reason

apart from being a nuisance to the general public, it is not the most effective way to increase bee colonies. its a bit like fish spawning a 1000 ofspring to have 1 survive and procreate. with the diseases we have (imported) you are very likely to go from 1 colony to none as prime swarm is killed because in chimney, 1st cast dies in cold weather, 2nd cast dies of varroa and the parent hive succumbs because there is not a viable colony left.

by all means, buy yourself a piece of woodland, leave the old trees to rot and seed it with bees (check they are pure Amms though) and make it friendly for other pollinators. Yes they will incubate diseases that my bees will catch but I rest assured that they are more likely to catch that from mismanaged hives in my urban area.

personally, I see a guaranteed future for the honey bee rather in multiplying skilled beekeepers than feral colonies. Both can and should be able to co exist though.

Well said thenovice. Rod, you probably will not get any honey or have a viable colony going into winter and only 15% of all swarms that are left to fend for themselves survive.

 

[B+.]

If the world is short of bees and the natural way of bees multiplying is swarming, why do we not encourage it ?

What happens in nature? A species reproduces in large numbers and then is ruthlessly culled by predation, disease and the environment. Only the "fittest" (luckiest) survive. Is this really what you are advocating? If so, what role to bee KEEPers have?

Lets call that missdirected good intentions and leave it at that

 

[Moggs]

I can't quite see what's going on here. Bees will swarm; not if, but when. As long as they have the instinct to swarm, some division of the colony is almost inevitable. Nature's way. A beekeeper's intervention through established techniques of bee husbandry is timed to work with nature to control the effect. What is the difference to a bee between a hive, a tree or a chimney for that matter?
The issue of a swarm per se is somewhat academic; the beekeeper makes an intervention to nullify the swarm instinct (and to all intents, an artificial swarm is still a swarm division). Apart from the fact that the beekeeper is far better placed to ensure the ongoing welfare of the split, through optimisation of conditions and disease control?
No, let's NOT allow bees to swarm! Apart from the increased risk of nuisance doesn't that make bee keeping something of a contradiction in terms?
Just had notification of EFB in proximity. Res ipsa loquitur. Now be a good beekeeper and go and look for queen cells.. (Though I suspect a measure of the Devil's Advocate underlying the thread)


I've had that déjà vu before...

 

[MuswellMetro]

80% of swarms do not survive one year in the wild, swarming is very high risk for a honey bee, and if the issue a lot of caste sarm the parent hive will also die

 

[user 6228]

I would be up for building proper honey bee "boxes " and putting them up in the woods but they would be insulated tubes about 1.5m tall and 250mm in diameter and would need a bit of considered design to make them durable and the right thermal properties. However, You would not need to deliberately release swarms to get them populated. As regards risk of disease, both the varroa and nosema boats sailed long ago. The biggest risk of disease is managed colonies and beekeepers according to the Rbi

 

[Dishmop]

Is there any research that suggests that part of the swarmng instinct is to move to a different area to enable future queens to mate with different stock?
Other animals do it.

 

[MartinL]

I really don't understand your point. I mean this in a polite and non aggressive manner. But surely we cannot claim the world is short of bees but as bee keepers we hold back bee colony growth by stealing honey and stopping swarming which is actually bee expansion ?

We're not just talking honey bees here, as a beekeeper you should be aiming to maximise your colonies potential by limiting swarms.

Why don't you invest in a bumble bee breeding project, or would that be too much for you?

 

[B+.]

Is there any research that suggests that part of the swarmng instinct is to move to a different area to enable future queens to mate with different stock?
Other animals do it.

If you watch Gudran Koenigers presentation at the National Honey Show on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI26DLS2CyM), she talks about the queen flying to distant drone congregational areas and her drones flying to nearer ones (on average). This is how honeybees attempt to supress inbreeding in nature.
It isn't the swarm that you should be looking at. Its the queen and drones.