leave them to it

[Brosville]

I like Charles for many reasons - in his position, many would have enjoyed a dissolute lifestyle (a sort of male Paris Hilton), but he instead has worked tirelessly for many charities, championed organic farming, and has had the cojones to take on the behemoths of the GM industry (sufficient alone in my book to hold the fella in high esteem). My good opinion of him is confirmed by a relative who was his close companion for a great many years, who also reckons he's "one of the good guys"
- drivel perhaps, but well-informed (and connected) drivel!

 

[Repwoc]

Natural. Nature. Would there be such things as beekeepers?

Are we not all of us part of nature?

 

[Stiffy]

I like Charles for many reasons - in his position, many would have enjoyed a dissolute lifestyle (a sort of male Paris Hilton), but he instead has worked tirelessly for many charities, championed organic farming, and has had the cojones to take on the behemoths of the GM industry (sufficient alone in my book to hold the fella in high esteem). My good opinion of him is confirmed by a relative who was his close companion for a great many years, who also reckons he's "one of the good guys"
- drivel perhaps, but well-informed (and connected) drivel!

Funny the things that impress people
Does he also take on the people who shoot at and persecute hen harriers.....probably not as he spawned two of them!

The mind boggles at well connected drivel and the thought of Charlie (her majesty named him well) as Paris Hilton .....maybe its the kilt

PS Have just found out that this forum has a list of words that are banned like ***** ixxxt, how clever!

 

[kazmcc]

Funny the things that impress people
Does he also take on the people who shoot at and persecute hen harriers.....probably not as he spawned two of them!

The mind boggles at well connected drivel and the thought of Charlie (her majesty named him well) as Paris Hilton .....maybe its the kilt

PS Have just found out that this forum has a list of words that are banned like ***** ixxxt, how clever!

I found that. I wouldn't have thought i_iot was an offensive word.

 

[madasafish]

As someone who has beaten grouse but never shot anything in my life, I find it difficult to criticse people who by their endeavours protect birds which - if left to "nature" - would be largely extinct..

And if they then shoot a few, so what? Most of us eat meat .. often killed rather more barbarically..

I run TBHs but have no problems with traditional beekeepers as they have taught me a lot (both what to do and what not to do).

A touch of humility and tolerance does not go amiss.

 

[Stiffy]

"And if they then shoot a few, so what? Most of us eat meat .. often killed rather more barbarically.."


I guess you mean the shooting of grouse or pheasant? If you read my reply it was aimed at the killing of hen harriers which seem to have a hard time on grouse moors where they should flourish. Bros's friend in high places is all for protecting birds as long as his sons dont get proscecuted for killing a protected species. See http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...hocked-by-killing-of-hen-harriers-398472.html

ooops sorry they didnt have anything to do with it just happened to be shooting in the area.........

Getting back on subject I dont have any problem with what people keep their bees in, you could keep them on biscuit barrel for all I care!

What I do object to is the way it is portrayed as a 'better and more natural ' way and that the majotiry of us are doing something wrong by treating and looking after our bees in a way that seems to work for us
Thats my Monday morning started very well the rest of the week can only get better!
Cheers
S

 

[Brosville]

I can't find any problem with claiming that something is "more natural", if indeed it is! - for instance, it could not be claimed that providing foundation is in any way "natural" - to allow bees to build their own comb MUST be more natural- it's what they would do in a hollow tree!

We can argue up hill and down dale about which is "better", but I don't think there's much argument over which is more natural............

 

[Chris Luck]

As someone who has beaten grouse but never shot anything in my life, I find it difficult to criticse people who by their endeavours protect birds which - if left to "nature" - would be largely extinct..

Name one.

Chris

 

[MJBee]

Giant Bustard, Red Kite and Goshawk - all extinct in the UK until re-introduced and given round the clock protection to allow their numbers to build up to sustainable levels.

I suggest that should the protection be removed all three would be extinct again within 5 years.

 

[Chris Luck]

The quote was if left to nature, all of the birds you mention have been victims of human persecution, not other natural causes. There are no birds that have been or are threatened from natural causes.

Chris

 

[madasafish]

Left to their own devices, ,most UK game birds would be hardly present in any numbers due to a combination of disease etc..

Grouse depend upon humans to burn heather to ensure they get an adequate supply of new growth. No grouse shooting = far fewer grouse..

 

[Hivemaker.]

Do you class rats and hedghogs as natural?

 

[Stiffy]

We can argue up hill and down dale about which is "better", but I don't think there's much argument over which is more natural............

Yep leaving them to do what they like and not putting any bees in a box is the most natural way but would soon lead to the demise of most colonies.

The TBH, Warre and any other manmade interference is no better or worse and shouldn’t be claimed to be. Whatever box you stick them is not and never will be natural.....it simply isn’t by definition of the fact that you are interfering with nature, end off


For clarity sake. The Bustard introduced is a Great Bustard (Otis tarda) and is one of many introductions such as the sea eagle which cost a fortune to introduce and is now likley to be lost again through wind turbines being placed on its hunting grounds.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/3298513/Sea-eagles-being-killed-by-wind-turbines.html

 

[Mint]

Are we not all of us part of nature?

I believe we are.

 

[Brosville]

It would seem (possibly through lack of reading into the subject) that Stiffy hasn't quite grasped that there are pretty fundamental differences in the top bar hives and those of Langstroth "type", leading to such comments as "is no better or worse and shouldn’t be claimed to be" - they are different, and it is reasonable to suppose that one or the other types may be "better" (according to whatever criteria you are measuring them by).
To then proceed with wobbly "logic" and claim that ALL interference with nature is fundamentally the same is utterly nonsensical - there is benevolent and thoughtful intervention and there is ecological vandalism...... (bird conservation and battery hens for instance) - to claim they are the same is utter tosh!
I didn't invent the "title" of "natural beekeeping" and have gone to great pains to point out that it's actually inaccurate (ad nauseam), but then there are those amongst us who never actually read what's been posted...........

 

[Chris Luck]

The birds of the UK and France are in no way threatened from natural causes, predation is a completely natural event that sorts out the strong from the weak and is all accounted for by a "numbers game", no predator wipes out its food source. So called game bird numbers are manipulated to suit hunting, some, such as the pheasant aren't even European so they don't even count.

Chris

 

[Hivemaker.]

Seems to be a lot of islands around the world that are having there bird populations driven towards extinction from rats.....

 

[Hivemaker.]

no predator wipes out its food source.

Thats not true,we have wiped out plenty of species.

 

[Chris Luck]

Ho, ho, ho Hivemaker, you are a wit. Humans can be put in a category all of their own, perhaps I should have made that clear from the start.

Also, it is necessary to draw a distinction between introduced species and native species, the rats you refer to have been introduced - via - guess who?

That's right, Humans.

This probably isn't the right place for this discussion - perhaps a different thread - but it is my work and we should be clear when making bland statements.

Chris

 

[Hivemaker.]

Yes very witty...but like it or not we are the ultimate predator,and we affect everything on the planet,and its not going to change or get any better without us trying to do something about it.....but we will most likely just make things worse....but does any of it really matter in the end.