Leave a a full super of honey for autumn?

[Luminos]

Hello People,
I have been given a(nother) beekeeping book, which advises leaving a full super of honey on for autumn, i.e., not harvesting all the honey supers.

I don't have the same advice in any other books so am a bit confused.

What is your opinion, please?

 

[oliver90owner]

Depends on several factors. Nothing set in stone. There may be better options. I certainly don't do that!! I used to. Perhaps you were reading a Scottish book; they would be more likely to do that.

There are other alternatives, not better, maybe but different.

I suggest you enquire locally and heed the experienced advice from there.

RAB

Edit i see you are located in 'France'. Even more reason to take local advice.

 

[bobinfleet]

i am now in my 2nd year and last year we left a super on, the brood box had lots of stores and we fed fondant in the winter, by the time spring arrived and we did an inspection we found the bees had not touched the super so this year i may take all the supers as long as they have stores in the bb

 

[oliver90owner]

last year we left a super on, the brood box had lots of stores and we fed fondant in the winter

Now, that is what I call 'belt and braces'!

What type hive? (could be even more of the above!)

RAB

 

[richardbees]

Luminos,

I used to but don't any longer ....it's better to sell the honey and make sure the bees stay stocked up with sugar syrup

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I would say harvest now - there's time to get more honey in or feed as is required. A WBC (In France!) has a small brood chamber. I winter my WBC's and Nats, if not on double brood, by putting a full super under the brood chamber at the last inspection, (October here). (No queen excluder). Bees stay warm in the top and you know there is sufficient stores for them. You can also see them when you do the Oxalic Acid thing in the winter. In spring simply remove the empty super from underneath.

 

[huntsman666]

I'd take it off and use it.

The colony shrinks considerably going into the winter providing enough space for stores in the brood chamber.

This is also your chance to treat for Nosema with Fumidil 'B' in their 2:1 syrup feed. Start feeding mid. September.

In February check stores by 'hefting' and if light, give fondant.

Besides, the more space above, the harder it is for them to keep warm.

However, each to their own.

 

[Flatters]

Last winter I left a super on the hive with 6 or 7 frames of honey but I only did this because in my ignorance I treated with thymol with a super on and it was severely tainted. (lesson learned). However I left the super on at the bottom.

As Huntsman stated it is best not to put it on top. The bees need to cluster and they need to have the queen in the cluster. Leave a super on with a QE and they could leave her down below. Without a QE and before your first inspection she may start to lay in the super.

I am planning already for winter by making sure I can get the colonies on double brood Nationals (only one is on a double BB at the moment) thereby eliminating the need for a super been left on. I can let them get on with the balsam late September (HB is big in our area) for themselves whilst treating with Thymol and therefore go into winter, treated and with enough stores. That’s the plan…

 

[Chris Luck]

Need to know where in France you are Luminos and what grows where you are? Without that info it's impossible to give an answer..

and BTW, why a WBC in France?

Chris

 

[BBG]

Luminos,

I used to but don't any longer ....it's better to sell the honey and make sure the bees stay stocked up with sugar syrup

Spoke to the Ambrosia people at Stoneleigh who told me they remove all the brood frames (unsure if they just leave one for Queen) Then bees are given syrup and fondant for winter stores - something in the order of 20Kg of fondant, ditto syrup. (figures may be inaccurate)

I was told the bees are happier and fitter and less stressed as a result and come out of winter raring to go.

Experienced Beeks on forum use same or fondant so more info there.

Honey is apparently "hard tack" for bees and difficult to use for winter stores.

 

[huntsman666]

<Honey is apparently "hard tack" for bees and difficult to use for winter stores.>

It's stood them well for many millions of years, perhaps they know best.

Once they can muster some water, even through condensation if they cannot get out, they'll manage.

 

[Hombre]

Harvest the supers, harvest also the brood chamber for surplus stores and give them back drawn comb (better still wet comb) and replace it with a good syrup feed to replace them

Mr Gale and his family didn't get rich by leaving supers on or neglecting those surplus stores. As a kid his was a household name and a real treat.

 

[Nellie]

I still can't wrap my head round the logic that bees have spent a few hundred million years of evolution coming up with a food that's difficult for them to eat and I can't help but wonder if that logic would still apply if honey cost the same (or more) as sugar.

Depends what you want from your bees I guess. I put mine onto 14x12s because they're a bit "too big" for my bees and it means I can whip off the supers safe in the knowledge they've got plenty of honey to winter on. And for the past 2 winters at least I've neither had to feed nor lost any bees having imposed this dastardly, hard to digest stuff on them.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

A WBC (In France!) has a small brood chamber

Granted one frame less, but I'd have thought that 14x12 brood boxes for WBCs are as good as a brood and a half at least?

 

[mbc]

"Honey is apparently "hard tack" for bees and difficult to use for winter stores. "

Only from a substitute sellers viewpoint.
God given nectar will be full of minor but important bits and pieces for the bees - even ivy honey which sets like rock can be used by good bees

 

[Vergilius]

Spoke to the Ambrosia people at Stoneleigh who told me they remove all the brood frames (unsure if they just leave one for Queen) Then bees are given syrup and fondant for winter stores - something in the order of 20Kg of fondant, ditto syrup. (figures may be inaccurate)

I was told the bees are happier and fitter and less stressed as a result and come out of winter raring to go.

Experienced Beeks on forum use same or fondant so more info there.

Honey is apparently "hard tack" for bees and difficult to use for winter stores.

I do not think that this is a good idea for a hobbyist beekeeper at all - so unnatural and fiddley!!!

Luminos,

It depends on many factors - strain of bee, winter weather etc. - whether a full WBC brood box is enough for winter.

I am on nationals and my bees have always been fine on just 1 deep box but, as you have seen, people have different opinions on the matter. And you are on WBC which I believe only has 10 frames - so you even less "store space".

But one problem encountered after last winter was that many newbees, regardless of how much stores their hives still had, continually fed fondant throughout the winter to their bees, and ended up with hives still full of uneaten winter stores coming into spring - leading to restricted laying space, and swarms as a result.

What I would recommend to you is to bee alert over this first winter. If you decide that you want a honey crop and winter on only 1 box as a result feed enough syrup in the autumn, insulate well and, during the winter, weigh the hive often and, if it appears that your bees - due to weather, poor strain... - are starving, you can get them through to spring with emergency fondant.

Then, next autumn, you can assess how much your bees need to get them through healthily and happily.


Ben P

 

[oliver90owner]

Well presented, Ben.

You are pretty well spot-on with all your points.

Going into winter without any supers fitted, and not feeding during the winter, I still found myself removing frames of stores this spring from one Dartington, both polynucs and some Nationals, providing comb or foundation in place of it, for colony expansion. Some is still in store, for use later in the season, if needed.

Regards, RAB

 

[Hebeegeebee]

For winter feeding, I see no need to wait until mid-september and then suddenly feed buckets of syrup which then has to be processed.
Once the honey comes off at around the end of July, Varroa treatment and feeding start at the same time for me
a) because it's a good time to do varroa and
b) they will be light on stores at this time.
c) Any stores they get from that time onwards belongs to the bees.

Gently feeding of syrup means that you don't get slabs of Ivy honey (which some complain about) and it seems to be more natural than a glut in Spetember. A more or less continual slow feed will ensure there is continual laying of the queen as well.
The bees can fill the super - or second brood chamber - at a leisurely pace with processed syrup mixed with what nectar they bring in. Then I put the super under as I posted above.

My view is to consider what the bees will experience naturally and try to work in sympathy with them - subject to wanting to get honey and controlled nuc production etc - that's what they are best suited to and that will give best results.

A super under a brood chamber (or a 14 x 12) means that you don't need to worry about winter feeding at all. No need for emergency fondant or anything like that. In the Spring there is enough food - and space for my bees to build up well. The only colonies I fed this spring were two large mini-nucs and a nuc. All stocks got through the winter.

 

[moby]

i am now in my 2nd year and last year we left a super on, the brood box had lots of stores and we fed fondant in the winter, by the time spring arrived and we did an inspection we found the bees had not touched the super so this year i may take all the supers as long as they have stores in the bb

 

[biggles]

Sugar is cheaper than honey!