Leave a a full super of honey for autumn?

[Brosville]

sugar, fumidil (why not go the whole hog and call in a nuclear strike?)...... there are times I'm so pleased to be one of those much-maligned "natural beekeepers" who prefers millions of years of experience........ (and who'll happily accept a "lower yield")

I was under the impression that "Ambrosia" was supposed to be the food of the gods - presumably the modern gods of commerce....

 

[Erichalfbee]

I left a half capped half filled super under one of mine last autumn and judging by the amount of wax underneath in the following three or four days they moved the stores up pretty sharpish. It was empty in the spring.

 

[oliver90owner]

judging by the amount of wax underneath in the following three or four days they moved the stores up pretty sharpish

Quite right too.

The bees would not want to retieve their stores directly from the freezer (as in December last winter)!

Above the brood nest has been the natural place for bees to store honey for millions of years. Why try to change it? I (often) put honey below the brood if I want it reprocessed or moved into a more useful (for me) place.

RAB

 

[Finman]

.
A full super honey is quite a big money. Bees do well with sugar.

essential is to put pollen frames into the hive over winter. From pollen bees get other nutrition other than energy.

 

[Finman]

I left a half capped half filled super under one of mine last autumn and judging by the amount of wax underneath in the following three or four days they moved the stores up pretty sharpish. It was empty in the spring.

That proves nothing. Use insulated hive boxes and your bees consume less winter food.

 

[BILL.HEARD]

Having kept a large number of Commercial National hives, the following worked for me:
All things being equal I would normally feed if required at the beginning of September, I would like each hive to have around 60 lbs of stores in the brood chamber, honey + syrup. After this the hives were left alone until the following March/April, no Candy, Fondant or any other food was given between these dates. If colonies died overwinter it was due to other reasons not starvation.
In the spring most hives would have sufficient room for and expanding brood nest. frames could be adjusted if required.

 

[Chris Luck]

Still no idea of where in France you are situated or what the local habitat / forage is - it makes a huge difference here to when you take your last harvest and what the bees are left with to stock the BB.

I never leave supers with stores on my Dadants for the winter, (or feed), but I'm very careful to make sure I've left them enough time and forage to do there own thing. Each year is different and I need to be on top of what is happening in "their zone", especially with the sunflowers which can be late, early or staggered. The first fields are flowering here now.

Chris

 

[Luminos]

Thank you all so much for your suggestions. I never even thought of putting a super below the brood chamber, so thank you all who suggested that.
I've learned more from a few weeks of reading this forum than all my books put together, I reckon!


(I began a reply earlier, but it has disappeared, so now it will appear twice I expect...)

Ok.
Oliver90owner: I have no help here. I wanted bees/hive four years ago and asked various French beeks, including one on whose course I was attending, but just came up against a brick wall. They weren't even polite about it.
Maybe it's because I'm not French. There appears to be some prejudice against foreigners. Or perhaps it's just a man-thing here.
That's why I'm a bit overwhelmed at the support here on the forum.

I have a WBC partly because the French seem to favour Dadants and I don't think I'll be able to lift full Dadant supers!

Chris Luck: I'm south of you - Haute-Vienne - bit cagey about saying exactly where, obviously...a WBC sticks out a kilometre...
What grows here? Grass. Loads of it.
No seriously, there are many insect-friendly garden flowers that I've planted, there's a small orchard, and about 2 hectares of wildflower meadow. The trees are mainly oak and acacia, with some sweet chestnut. Hedges are blackthorne/maple/hornbeam and MASSES or blackberry (bramble).
Agriculture: No OSR here, or sunflowers. Mostly barley, grazing rye and peas, maize.

ben.pullen: I'm afraid I don't know what type of bees they are, er, sort of brown?
Very calm - they might even like me...

Should I put on another brood box for winter? I shall have to order one. I have a spare super, though?
Should I buy a quilt for winter?

I will try to make the fondant. It is here for sale in the shops but heaven knows how many years it has sat on the shelf.

I'm keeping bees mainly for pollination, but also to try and "do my bit."
It's therefore crucial for me to get it right - otherwise I will just be contributing to their demise.
If I get any honey, it's a bonus. I'm not planning to sell it. I'm planning to eat it all...

 

[richardbees]

BBG

you posted: "Spoke to the Ambrosia people at Stoneleigh who told me they remove all the brood frames (unsure if they just leave one for Queen) Then bees are given syrup and fondant for winter stores - something in the order of 20Kg of fondant, ditto syrup. (figures may be inaccurate)"

I think you misunderstood what they said = They are experts but I cannot think of any reason for removing brood frames pre-winter!.

richard

 

[richardbees]

Luminos

"...and I don't think I'll be able to lift full Dadant supers!"

you are so sensible!

too many posters go on about doubling up a National BB - I couldn't easily lift 60 lbs to inspect the bottom box.

richard

 

[Chris Luck]

Sorry about this, I did reply but obviously something I did or didn't do.

I know the Haute- Vienne quite well, in fact it's just to the south east of where I live on the Vienne / Charente border. Somewhat colder and wetter than here with a slightly longer winter but importantly as you pointed out no OSR or sunflower and I suspect very little in the way of forage from about now on, or soon anyway, apart from ivy, (of which I would guess there is plenty), later in the season. If this is the first year and you have nothing to go by I would definitely not be taking any honey from them until I understood the season in the area and would leave them with everything they have gathered either above or below....your choice.

....and I agree, Dadants are heavy and really a two person job.

One more point, not being funny, but I can't see why you should be concerned about people knowing where you live, it's highly unlikely that the bee thieves will come over from the UK for your hive and AFAIK no hives / bees are stolen in France. Let's face it the countryside is littered with hives, well, round here anyway.

Chris

 

[Luminos]

Thank you Chris for your input. (I've PM'd you on the other stuff).
I'm on the border with Charente, too.
Will the bees not be liking bramble flowers?
Yes it's their first year - their first 5 weeks, in fact I understand the seasons pretty well - I'm a gardener - but perhaps not from the bees perspective.

As for people knowing where I live: I've had one or two things pinched, a neighbour which persists in climbing over the fence into the garden and and destroying things, plus a farmer who sprays weedkiller on my hedging plants "because he doesn't want a hedge there".
So I'm not taking any chances!

 

[Chris Luck]

Sure, brambles good, here it's just about finished after flowering for a month, maybe a bit different there.

Bummer having crap neighbours - not at all good, dare I ask French or other?

Trying desperately to think what else would provide a good late season flow there, I'm more or less completely dependant on the sunflowers for the summer.

Chris

 

[Luminos]

The brambles in the shade are just starting, the ones in the sun are greenberries...it's a pity there aren't fields of sunflowers here. It's cattle country.

Fortunately, the nearest house is about half a km away and has been empty for years, so no near neighbours.
The field next to us has a tenant farmer - the weedkiller sprayer - he doesn't live in the same hamlet.
After I spoke to him about the spraying, he said he would allow me to grow a hedge, as long as it wasn't any higher than "the little cabane" (summerhouse).
I agreed, and so far as I've kept to my side of the bargain, so has he.
The owner of the field is a really nice man, and lives about a km away, but he doesn't have any say.

The other offender is a neighbour only in that he bought the property at the bottom of mine, which is a fishing lake. He doesn't live there - lives in Charente Maritime.
This one really is bonkers...
...all are French.

But anyway, many thanks for your suggestions, I don't have a problem with feeding sugar syrup if necessary.

 

[richardbees]

Luminos and Chris...

...just goes to show! I'm South London and my blackberries have been and gone in the drought with no visible nectar product.

However, we've had three weeks of rain and there are now two huge Lime trees in full flower within 100 yds - nectar's coming in by the bucket load!

richard

 

[Luminos]

I've just gone back and re-read this thread to make sure I've taken in all the advice and information...
Richardbees, I understand that the trees in London are important for the bees; I've heard that there's often more forage in the towns, what with the trees and gardens, than in the agricultural areas.

Actually, I lived awhile in south London.

 

[BBG]

BBG

you posted: "Spoke to the Ambrosia people at Stoneleigh who told me they remove all the brood frames (unsure if they just leave one for Queen) Then bees are given syrup and fondant for winter stores - something in the order of 20Kg of fondant, ditto syrup. (figures may be inaccurate)"

I think you misunderstood what they said = They are experts but I cannot think of any reason for removing brood frames pre-winter!.

richard

Also spoke to the Scotsman who I am sure said he extracts all frames in brood box and returns them then feeds Ambrosia.

The Danish man reckons the bees are healthier and I did ask him to repeat what he said. Have tried to find him to confirm this but not yet succeeded.

Ambrosia and Api have been specially formulated for bees who, despite their millions of years of getting it right are now confined by us in unnatural boxes where they are trapped and need management to continue providing honey in our supers.

 

[Poly Hive]

BBG?

Hamish does not use this forum but he is the man you probably talked to at Stoneleigh and yes he does extract his brood boxes.

The reason being two fold.

The first is financial which is that his hives (750 odd) will have been to the heather and from a full Langstroth box you can easily get 50 lbs. Heather honey is the premium honey in the UK and so is that much more valuable.

Hamish swears that his hives are over wintering better with the ambroisa and whilst he is obviously selling the stuff I have no reason to disbelieve him, and further I trust him implicitly as he has mentored me for many years.

Heather honey tends to contain a lot of pollen and by reason of being a sort of hi roughage honey is not the best for over wintering esp in long cold spells.

He is also arguably the best honey farmer in the UK, certainly on the marketing front.

Amazing the people you meet innnit?

PH

 

[greatbritishhoney]

The way the weather is going here on Wales I'll be lucky if I find myself in the dilemma of whether to leave a super on or not.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The way the weather is going here on Wales I'll be lucky if I find myself in the dilemma of whether to leave a super on or not.

Have a little faith,less of the negative vibes...think good positive thoughts.