Learning curve now at vertical

[Bomber]

Hi, looking for some advice/opinions if possible as this is my first year.

I got my first bees at the end of April and all was fine, going well. I had planned to do an AS when the time was right but missed the opportunity and the bees swarmed on June 3. With the help of a local BK I caught the swarm and set up a new colony. We went through the parent hive and took out all the QC but one.

He advised I leave the parent hive for about one month to give the new Queen time to emerge, get mated and start laying before I opened them up and check. This I have done. The top swarm has been checked seven days after they were set up and they were doing their thing as normal, drawing comb queen laying etc. I was a happy new Bee Keeper with two hives. ( even got 9 frames of honey about 15lb so was delighted)

Today on checking the garden prior to going to work I found a swarm of bees in my willow trees. (45 mins before I have to leave is cutting it fine, especially as no help available today) anyway I set about catching the swarm in a cardboard box, all I had available, and due to time constraints had no option but to run them into my last empty bee hive. This was about 1600hrs. This all went well with only a few stragglers left behind, not ideal I know but I really had no choice.

I wondered where this swarm had come from, I checked the top swarm and no QC in there, they are working well with a nice brood pattern, larvae, eggs, stores etc. loads of bees in there too. They are drawing the last brood frame out so I don't think the swarm came for here.

I then ran out of time and did not look through the parent hive, I did lift the top off and look down and it seemed packed with bees, but was worried about looking further as it was not till the 24th that I worked out I should be looking in this one.

Would this be a second swarm from the parent hive 'cast' and if so why if I only left the one QC, did I miss one? Will the swarm have a queen? Will the parent hive have a queen? So many questions, sorry for that but my local experienced BK's are all away on holiday and its quite fun learning for myself.

Any advice or opinions welcome. Loving my new hobby, it just keeps getting better only hope I can do the bees justice.

Regards

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I appreciate you are following advice from a mentor but leaving for a month seems just too long. I'm only a newbie myself so probably going to make mistakes of my own too but I would have looked to see if the queen cell(s) you left had hatched and if others had been thrown up by the bees in the first few days after the queen left.
Others with more experience will no doubt comment
Could this latest swarm be from somewhere else or a mating swarm?

 

[Finman]

.
Impossible to say how you nurse your hives
- and of April should do AS...... but what happened..swarm
- a moth later a swarm
- 2 weeks later a swarm


But basic nursing and hive setup is something what it should not be

- too tight hive, not following the growth of colony
- enlargenings
- how many boxes
- excluder in wrong place
-

 

[galileo]

It sounds like you have some fast working bees there. It could be a swarm from another place, attracted to the scent of bees, but chances are it's from your parent hive as you suspect. It's worth going into an AS's parent between the QC being capped and when it is due to emerge, to remove any QCs made since the AS. They can make another QC or 10! within 4 days if they're a mind so to do and by the sound of it, there's a lot of bees in the box so they may well have considered it worthwhile.

I tend to err on the side of caution until the new queen has emerged, so I'll look in on day 3 and day 6 after the laying queen is removed, then again on the 8th day after the chosen QC is capped to ensure that she's out and about. It may be too hands on for some and there's a good argument for that, but it's served me well and I don't have casts.

Of course, when that QC (or the backup in the event of failure of the first one - I leave two, one old, one newer, which is removed when the first emerges) has emerged, THEN the hive gets left alone for a month, but not until I'm sure that there's a single virgin wandering about in there, AND that the bees have no eggs or young enough larvae to make any more.

Hoping the above is understandable - late night, early morn.

Keep it up - sounds like you're doing just fine there.

 

[Finman]

Keep it up - sounds like you're doing just fine there.

Really!

 

[Chris B]

Your original advice was wrong.

Timing is everything: Reducing to one queen cell immediately after the old queen left is the problem. You needed to go in a week later, 10th June to do this. Also any queen cells left on 3rd June needed to be unsealed.

 

[susbees]

Your original advice was wrong.

Timing is everything: Reducing to one queen cell immediately after the old queen left is the problem. You needed to go in again a week later, 10th June to do this. Also any queen cells left on 3rd June needed to be unsealed.

with the first bit, added word for clarity
with the second bit when only one or two hives

The (only) "15 pounds of honey" (in a National super?) is bothering me. Was this sealed (and therefore ripe)?

 

[oliver90owner]

but leaving for a month seems just too long

Not overly wrong - draw a time line. We know not whether this new beek would see eggs, either. Three weeks might be a better time? I don't think so, as that allows less than a fortnight for the newly emerged queen to be mated and laying (if the time was from swarm date). New beeks disturbing a virgin is not an ideal situation either, so he was OK-ish with that advice.

Chris B is on the button, except that I would have said leave two if sealed. The captured swarm 'described as 'top' intrigues me.

It should defintely have been parked adjacent to the parent colony and the parent colony moved away just prior to emergence (no, not many think of doing that in these circumstances, I suppose).

Susbees has perhaps rightly reinforced to need to check for more queen cells, but as above, I disagree with the second part.

RAB

 

[Bomber]

Thanks for the replies, hindsight is a wonderful thing but completely new at this and been following advice (which has been appreciated). I have learnt a hell of a lot in the short time I have had bees and know that will continue for many years, so many on here have their own way of doing things for the same end result, so I guess I will have to just choose what way I will choose to come out at the end with the same result.

To answer a few things the swarm referred to as 'top' was terminology used by the BK who gave me advice, I just assumed it meant first, best swarm.

The 15lb of honey I got was capped and ripe, a mix of some local blossom and OSR. It has been made into soft set and is very tasty, not a bad first attempt ( a little grainy but not an unpleasant texture) more learnt here lol and its for me and my family anyway.

More importantly, what is the best course of action to take now, I was under crappy time restraint yesterday but now have two days off to plan and execute a strategy to try and fix/save/organise what has happened. Again all advice opinions welcome in this ever steepening learning curve.

Regards.


Ps, thanks for the words of " sounds like your doing alright" appreciated, but the sarcastic reply of "really" underneath was just confidence building at its best, just what a new guy need to hear. Luckily for me I don't give up easy, must be the thick skin lol.

 

[itma]

... the swarm referred to as 'top' was terminology used by the BK who gave me advice, I just assumed it meant first, best swarm.
...

In your books it will be referred to as a 'prime' swarm.
There is one very important difference between that and subsequent 'casts'.
Be sure you understand that difference!

 

[pargyle]

Ps, thanks for the words of " sounds like your doing alright" appreciated, but the sarcastic reply of "really" underneath was just confidence building at its best, just what a new guy need to hear. Luckily for me I don't give up easy, must be the thick skin lol.

Finnnies having an off day - this is the second one liner ! Don't take it to heart, he's not singling you out .... I think it's everyone today who is wrong !!

 

[Bomber]

Finnnies having an off day - this is the second one liner ! Don't take it to heart, he's not singling you out .... I think it's everyone today who is wrong !!

Thanks, no I am not offended at all, it would take more than that to put my nose out of joint lol, just thought I would mention it as I found it amusing.

 

[oliver90owner]

hindsight is a wonderful thing

Make your own. It works!

Check out all your possible scenarios projected forward before you do anything. It can allow you to recognise the 'dead ends', before you arrive at them, and so allow you to avoid same.

Not looked back at Finman's comment and the origin for it, but there is little point in being sloppily sympathetc if glaring errors are made; it only leads to the new beek thinking he/she does not need to do any more.

Whenever you do something with the bees, you need to be assured it is a positive move. Just flying blind and hoping for the best is not considered good enough where livestock is concerned.

 

[Bomber]

hindsight is a wonderful thing

Make your own. It works!

Check out all your possible scenarios projected forward before you do anything. It can allow you to recognise the 'dead ends', before you arrive at them, and so allow you to avoid same.

Not looked back at Finman's comment and the origin for it, but there is little point in being sloppily sympathetc if glaring errors are made; it only leads to the new beek thinking he/she does not need to do any more.

Whenever you do something with the bees, you need to be assured it is a positive move. Just flying blind and hoping for the best is not considered good enough where livestock is concerned.

Thanks for the reply and advice, I am not looking for sympathy only advice and opinions when i appear to have made an error, and appreciate an error has been made, I now know what the error I have made is ( missed a QC resulting in a second swarm).

I am certainly not flying blind and hoping for the best, i observe and carefully think and plan what my next move is trying to avoid making rash moves/actions resulting in a big mess. I made a mistake and missed a fairly well hidden QC in a side bar (learning more every day). I know I have a lot to learn and need to keep at it, I have not entered into beekeeping as a passing flight of fancy.

Apologies if I offended anyone,not my intention at all, I am thankful this wealth of experience and knowledge is here and appreciate ALL opinions and advice shared.

Regards.

 

[oliver90owner]

Your learning curve may be steep, but not vertical, if you are thinking ahead.

 

[Bomber]

Point taken thanks, steep indeed but still a few clicks from vertical as you say. Plan, plan plan and the when you think you got it plan a bit more and avoid the trauma.