Laying worker

[Greatbigchicken]

I'm pretty sure I've got a laying worker or poss drone laying queen, but can't find her.
Could I unite this hive with a nice strong colony?
Would the LW stop laying and revert to being a good little bee?
Would the good queen kill the DLQ or vice versa? I don't really want to risk my good queen.


Bit of back ground to my assumption of LW or DLQ, this hive is a cast swarm caught on 5th May, not seen a queen at all since. Has some patches of brood, multiple eggs in bottom of cells, some "normal" looking cells, some cells with eggs on the sides of cells. The bees are very calm and easy to work with. There does seem to be a lot of drone cells, although a few do look normal.

 

[nelletap]

I'm fairly new so put my advice low down the list. However, the calm colony does make me feel that all must be reasonably well. If it was an unmated queen when you caught the swarm, then he extra size would be less noticeable. new queens seem to need to practise before they get the one egg per cell perfectly placed format. When I have seen laying worker evidence the whole pattern of laying seems that they don't know what to do and so are dashing round cells in a more random manner whereas queens do seem to lay in adjoining cells so it looks more organised even if what is in each cell looks a little wrong.
Though weather has not been kind since the 5th May when you say you caught it, sheltered conditions and local conditions can provide a warmer environment so that virgin queens could still have mated.

Tricia

 

[Finman]

.
Laying workers may be hundreds in the hive.

Put a larva frame from your normal hive. Bees start to rear queen cells and everything becomes normal. Then bye a new queen.

One way is to join a swarm into the hive.

 

[beesleybees]

.
Laying workers may be hundreds in the hive.

Put a larva frame from your normal hive. Bees start to rear queen cells and everything becomes normal. Then bye a new queen.

One way is to join a swarm into the hive.

I have a hive i think with a laying worker/s. I was told the best way to deal with this is empty them out in the corner of the field and either

a) hope the workers dont fly back to the original hive or
b) dont replace the hive and hope the shook bees beg to get into other hives

I was told that laying workers are treated as 'queens' so adding a mated queen from another colony/swarm would make the workers in the hive kill her.
As for adding brood and eggs, wouldnt they not build queens cells as they think they are queen right with a laying worker!!

advice appreciated

 

[thepliedes]

Hi, myself and a friend did an artificial swarm last year to give me a second colony. However, it was never a strong healthy colony as I think we lost the queen and had laying workers and loads of drone. We did put on some larvae in the hope they would raise another queen but to no avail. I tried to put off the inevitable for a couple of weeks until eventually upon inspection, it was clear the hive was dying. I shook the frames of the remaining slow moving bees in front of my first strong hive and hoped for the best. Better to give them a fighting chance I think by joining another hive than tolerating a weak hive in the hope it will rejuvenate itself. I have done another artificial swarm this year and so far all is well.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Shake them out.

I exercise zero tolerance in my apiaries when it comes to either laying workers or drone laying queens.

All in my humble opinion, of course.

 

[Finman]

I have a hive i think with a laying worker/s. I was told the best way to deal with this is empty them out in the corner of the field and either

a) hope the workers dont fly back to the original hive or
b) dont replace the hive and hope the shook bees beg to get into other hives

I was told that laying workers are treated as 'queens' so adding a mated queen from another colony/swarm would make the workers in the hive kill her.
As for adding brood and eggs, wouldnt they not build queens cells as they think they are queen right with a laying worker!!

advice appreciated

That is the old story which has been told decades, University of Sheffield revieled that the truth is something else.

.

 

[Finman]

Shake them out.

.

What why?

 

[Finman]

Listen everybody!. Stop shaking bees, There is no Worker Queen.



When hive is desparately queenless, lots of queens develope their ovaries and they lay in cells.

In normal hive bees practice "worker policing". It means that if worker lays eggs in the queen right hive, police workers eate all those eggs during 24 hours.
http://www.lasi.group.shef.ac.uk/pdf/Martin 73.pdf


You need not to go to field corner and shake bees there. Workers can flye with their swollen ovaries.

I have explained this tens of times here but no help.

- put a larva frame into the hive
- let the hive rear capped emergency queen cell. It takes 5 days.
- when queen cells are capped, the hive accept what ever new queen

Bees in worker layer hive are old. When queen starts to lay, give to the hive a brood frame of emerging bees, From that the hive gets fresh nurser bees and brood rearing starts well.

 

[snoop]

Finman

How often have you done this & it worked sucessfully?

 

[Finman]

Finman

How often have you done this & it worked sucessfully?

During 50 years? I have not counted. Perhaps once a year or every two years. I do not know. In mating nucs it has been common.

 

[Finman]

Finman

How often have you done this & it worked sucessfully?

It works succesfully every time.

 

[rockdoc]

Thanks for that Finman. I recently had the same problem and followed the old established method. It would appear that the laying workers did make it back to the hive site and I'm seeing up to three eggs per cell. So I will now try the Finnish method.

 

[snoop]

I have a strong colony that I did an artificial swarm on and again the queen did not mate in one brood box . I now have a laying worker in that hive . I will give it a go

 

[Finman]

I did an artificial swarm on and again the queen did not mate in one brood box . I now have a laying worker in that hive . I will give it a go

Idea is to join hive partas when swarming fever is over. JOin the bees.

 

[Finman]

So I will now try the Finnish method.

University of Sheffield has revieled the secret of laying workers 10-15 years ago

.

 

[Into the lions den]

University of Sheffield has revieled the secret of laying workers 10-15 years ago

.

Been there, read the info, tried the method..................seems to work reasonably OK with Italian style stock or with carniolans (maybe 65 or 70% success)

but

Black bees ( A.m.m.) seem quite content with their laying workers and far more frequently reject attempts at requeening, on too many occasions for it to be a truly worthwhile exercise messing about with them. Wasted too much time and affort on them in the past when the best results are always obtained by being ruthless. Get rid of the dross (which are the ageing progeny of the last time they DID have a laying queen, and in spring cases dwindle away very quickly). Make a fresh split from a good hive.

Experience gained over many hundreds of these things over many many years, and the efforts to keep things going so as not to lose that colony is one of the things that shows I am not as professional as I might like to think I am........lol. ( A big softy at heart.)

 

[Into the lions den]

ps...in case any think this is a 'kick A.m.m.' time it is not...................there are other types even worse............iberica and sicula are two types with which I have direct experience which are very resistant indeed to being sorted out.

 

[snoop]

Finman

Did as you suggested , took a frame of eggs with larvae from a hive last Wednesday put it into a hive with laying workers , this Wednesday , checked the hive , no change , laying workers still laying 2/3 eggs in odd cells.

Put another frame in today. open brrod eggs & some capped larvae.

I intend to try another frame next week. Hope it works

 

[Spikedog]

For what its worth - We are dealling with similar problem. First week no Q cell, so replaced the test frame [eggs and larvae] with a fresh one, fingers crossed for a result this weekend. If not will go to week three - after this we anticipate swift demise of hive. My appreciation of worker layers is that it can take up to three attempts to undermine their urge to lay and use the frame.