Laying worker?

[kazmcc]

Bumped into the wife of the guy who nicked our frame today. She stopped me and said I must be pleased we are Q+ again, so I asked them how theirs is. She said they haven't seen a queen, but they must have one because someone is laying, but it's all drone. I asked her if it could be a laying worker and she didn't know what one was.

I talked to her for a while and it turns out beekeeping is more difficult than they bargained for, and are losing heart. So, me, like a soft lump felt bad for them. I offered to help.

They have been Q- for a long time, a good few months now. So it's possible a worker has started laying. Although they did get my frame of eggs, so it may be a DLQ. I am going to take a look for them, just to make sure as i can't go off their observations can I?

So, it's a shook swarm jobbie then isn't it, if it is a LW. If it's a DLQ then I just squish her and requeen right? If i put a frame with eggs in, am I right in saying if it's a DLQ they won't draw QCs, if it's a LW then they will?

How does a shook swarm work and why? Just in case it comes to the worst

Am I about right here? Or could it be something else? Or do you resolve it by doing something else?

 

[kazmcc]

That's if they have a problem at all that is

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Hi Kaz - wait for more informed comments, but I dont think the shook swarm idea is correct - Hivemaker published a pretty thorough list of things that can be done with DLWs earlier today/yesterday. The crux being that with lots of DLWs and no queen there is not much that can be done and the whole colony might as well be dispersed.

 

[kazmcc]

Yikes! That will be their 4th colony gone then! Thanks, I didn't see that, I'll go and have a butchers for it.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

If the drone brood is all over the place with eggs halfway down cup and multiple eggs its likely to be workers. If the pattern is still good and mainly single eggs at bottom of cell then likely to be queen.

 

[huntsman666]

On your visit note any pattern to the drone cells, if they are neatly beside each other then you have DLQ, one either out of sperm or never mated successfully. If all over the frame, then LW.

If DLQ, find and squash her.

If LW, look for eggs on the sides of the cells, not the bottom.

For both case, and IMO (no flames please) I'd give a frame with eggs, one a week for three weeks.

 

[kazmcc]

On your visit note any pattern to the drone cells, if they are neatly beside each other then you have DLQ, one either out of sperm or never mated successfully. If all over the frame, then LW.

If DLQ, find and squash her.

If LW, look for eggs on the sides of the cells, not the bottom.

For both case, and IMO (no flames please) I'd give a frame with eggs, one a week for three weeks.

Thanks. I didn't think about the placement of eggs. I did know this but didn't think of it.

We will struggle finding frames with eggs on for them, I can't give them any as we are completely honey blocked so our Q is limited right now. All I can do is look for them. Advise them, and maybe get the bee inspector down for them. It's up to them to find the necessary, but they will be retold not to scavenge our hive.

It really is frightening how little they know. This is the 4th colony they've messed up. I've not even completed my 1st year yet, I shouldn't be the one giving advice and help. I'm just not qualified, but there isn't anyone else who can help them. They have no mentor, are not part of an assoc. I'm all they've got

This should have been resolved a long time ago, as soon as they realised they were Q-.

 

[kazmcc]

Just found Hivemakers post and am reading it through. Thanks for putting me onto it

 

[huntsman666]

Kaz, you obviously know a hell of a lot more than them, so you 'are' their mentor.

Don't sell your yourself short.

Regards.

 

[kazmcc]

Kaz, you obviously know a hell of a lot more than them, so you 'are' their mentor.

Don't sell your yourself short.

Regards.

Thank you

Well, I am the school bee expert haha. God help them

 

[oliver90owner]

For both case, and IMO (no flames please)

I personally would not do that if there is a queen present. That is for 'curing' laying workers by suppressing their hormones.

That will not be the case with a DLQ recently removed so is unecessary. You can do what you want and I will gladly let you get on with it, but when advising others to do that, I will offer my alternative when I think it wrong, inappropriate or unecessary. I think it is the wrong advice.

I have always squished and united, as the better option for me. Laying queen - a week later, DLQ - immediately.

RAB

 

[huntsman666]

<I have always squished and united, >

And where do these people keep a second colony?

 

[kazmcc]

For both case, and IMO (no flames please)

I personally would not do that if there is a queen present. That is for 'curing' laying workers by suppressing their hormones.

That will not be the case with a DLQ recently removed so is unecessary. You can do what you want and I will gladly let you get on with it, but when advising others to do that, I will offer my alternative when I think it wrong, inappropriate or unecessary. I think it is the wrong advice.

I have always squished and united, as the better option for me. Laying queen - a week later, DLQ - immediately.

RAB

My plan then, if it's a laying worker is to do naff all and tell them they are doomed, but to get the bee inspector in just to be sure I'm right in my observations, also to make sure the doomed bees are healthy as if they don't know anything, then they won't recognise disease.

If it's a DLQ, I will try and help them find it, then tell them to buy a new queen and I'll introduce for them

Neither of us have 2nd colonies. Well, we do, but they are in Bolton. I knew nothing about bees when this project was created. The woman who had the bee knowledge didn't mention needing 2 colonies preferable. Which is just daft, i could go on all night about it, but I won't. As I've said, I will do my best for them with what I have and try and get everything we need now I know about this stuff.

Thanks, both of you for your advice and encouragement

 

[oliver90owner]

<I have always squished and united, >

Don't misquote.

I said "I have always squished and united, as the better option for me."

Forward planning helps me. I keep them in another hive or nuc.

 

[huntsman666]

The question Kaz asked was what were the options open to 'her' considering the circumstances.

As you have more colonies, your options are much different.

My comments were directed at trying to help Kaz, not what may be best given other circumstances.

 

[oliver90owner]

Then give the right advice re the DLQs.

My last line which you are objecting to relates to my preferred method, which is not of introducing queens directly to full colonies.

It could be an option to split off some bees for the queen introduction part followed by re-uniting later. Nothing lost and possibly a safer route. Think about it. More than a single option, but as I said with my preferred option I unite immediatley if a DLQ is removed and much later if replacing a laying queen. Should even be obvious to you that this particular scenario does not have a normal laying queen. Perhaps I need to explain to you that I meant a worker laying queen as opposed to a drone laying queen. Very sorry.

 

[Bees Plus]

Laying workers cannot reach the bottom of the cell and leave the egg on the cell wall rather than the very bottom.

Hope this helps?

 

[huntsman666]

What I suggested to Kaz has a reasonable chance of saving 'that' colony.

Can I kindly ask you once again to stop your nit-picking on everything I have to say, for you are most cetainly coming across (to me anyway) as a board bully?

 

[oliver90owner]

huntsman666,

Get Lost!

Tonight - wait at least three weeks before intoducing to replace a DLQ

Last Night - dissolve 10kg sugar in 5 litres of water and expect only 5 litres of solution.

What planet are you on? Are you paranoid?

You would be on 'ignore' if there wasn't the need to correct a lot of your poor advice.

 

[TOBY-3652]

Naughty naughty