Laying worker - is there any hope?

[Levitt53]

I had a colony who was feisty and my intention was to requeen this year. I hadn't seen the Q since the middle of April and there brood was dwindling although there were still quite a lot of bees in there. I put a test frame in there on 24th April but they didn't draw any QCs and I have seen no evidence of supersedure. My bees as a whole are not behaving well this year and I have only just got a frame of eggs that I felt I could give them to let them have another go. I knew I was pushing it a bit but there was no sign of laying workers in there so far. I took my frame of eggs from the selected hive this morning and low and behold there is brood in the queenless hive, it looks like drone although none of it was capped so maybe not. I had no choice but to put the frame of eggs in there and thought that maybe as the laying workers might have only just developed I might get away with it. I would like to save this colony if possible or is it doomed?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Doomed? Not necessarily but have you the resources to save it? Remember it’s not the colony you are saving. You are just using the bees to raise you a new queen. You might be able to keep them going by adding a frame if brood every week till they make queen cells. You might need to add a few and say you add 4 then by the time a queen is ready to mate there isn’t a single bee from your original one left. So what are you saving?

 

[Levitt53]

Doomed? Not necessarily but have you the resources to save it? Remember it’s not the colony you are saving. You are just using the bees to raise you a new queen. You might be able to keep them going by adding a frame if brood every week till they make queen cells. You might need to add a few and say you add 4 then by the time a queen is ready to mate there isn’t a single bee from your original one left. So what are you saving?

Hmm yes I see your point. I'm having a bit of a pants year at the moment so trying to save everything I can. There are enough bees in there so I was hoping that as the laying worker(s) had only just started then maybe the bees would still raise a QC from the frame I gave them. I guess I'll know in a few days.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hmm yes I see your point. I'm having a bit of a pants year at the moment so trying to save everything I can. There are enough bees in there so I was hoping that as the laying worker(s) had only just started then maybe the bees would still raise a QC from the frame I gave them. I guess I'll know in a few days.

Yes they might but how old are all those bees. Have they enough in them to feed up a decent larva?

 

[Bee Boys]

If you have more than one hive as it sounds? I would shake the bees out and let them combine with one of your other hives.

 

[Apiarist]

I would shake the bees out and let them combine with one of your other hives.

Some while back I followed what the book said, and shook them out infront of three hives, a battle followed, in the end my best hive lost it's queen! Just saying.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Some while back I followed what the book said, and shook them out infront of three hives, a battle followed, in the end my best hive lost it's queen! Just saying.

Did you give the shaken bees a really good smoking before you shook them out?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I shake bees out in front of other hives a few times each year, often with little smoke - never had an issue

 

[E&MBees]

Did you give the shaken bees a really good smoking before you shook them out?

Why do you use plenty of smoke when shaking them out? I need to shake out a laying worker colony.

 

[pargyle]

Why do you use plenty of smoke when shaking them out? I need to shake out a laying worker colony.

With lots of smoke and if you wait a while before shaking them out the theory is that they gorge on honey and use this as begging rights when they are trying to find a new home ... sounds plausible to me.

It's also possible that the smell of the smoke masks the pheremones that identify the colony signature and therefore they are more readily accepted.

Of course .. it could just be something that by coincidence appears to have worked in the past at some point and is perpetuated as an accepted practice !

Perm any one from three ..perhaps one of our Master Beekeepers will have a more technical reason ?

 

[Newbeeneil]

I too have a laying worker colony. I was going to replace the colony with a strong nuc (in a full size brood box) in the same position and shake the bees out. I assume this would work?....

 

[Erichalfbee]

Pargyle is right
It could be any or none if those.
It’s one of those things I do because I do. I don’t suppose any harm comes of it if it is pointless.
I have shaken a smallish colony and forgotten to smoke them and had success.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I too have a laying worker colony. I was going to replace the colony with a strong nuc (in a full size brood box) in the same position and shake the bees out. I assume this would work?....

In this case I might be tempted to tweak things a little.
Move the LW away for a day then all the returning foragers will find the new hive.
Shake the rest out the next day. That way the new hive gets less of a hit at once?

 

[joelsoo]

I had the same problem thinking I had a laying worker colony in a nuc. I consulted my mentor and was told to cut losses and chuck out this colony.

I was halfway uniting 2 nucs (newspaper only had a very small hole so I thought not many bees had moved in between) and discovered this laying worker in one of the nuc's so i chucked out the nuc with the suspected laying worker.

However after only when I began reading more about multiple eggs only realised there is a chance that it could be a new mated queen who sometimes on early days of her job may lay multiple eggs by mistake. After a week she will correct herself. I did the maths and I was expected to have a mated queen back that week it happened.

I had therefore chucked out 4 to 5 frames of bees by mistake. And possibly the mated queen. I felt so guilty as the day I chucked them out there was the week where we had cold spell in beginning of May.

Lesson learnt is be careful not to also mistake a new mated queen for laying worker. Also learnt that if the eggs are on side walls they are workers as their abdomen can't reach the bottom. And if its queen, it's right at the bottom. Mine are at the bottom but learnt abit late as my inexperience costed this mistake. Its only my 2nd season. (I started beekeeping last June 2019 so still a greenhorn)

^ith ladyluck on my side. Remember The small hole between the newspaper I was uniting the nuc's, the queen by some miracle crawled through that and I saw eggs in the other hive. Tht was lucky so I only lost bees. And managed to lucikly saved the 2020 mated queen


Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Erichalfbee]

You have to be sure you have LWs
I was pretty sure

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oh and laying workers can and do lay eggs at the bottom of cells and you can and do find single eggs There are LOTS of laying workers not just one.

 

[joelsoo]

Oh and laying workers can and do lay eggs at the bottom of cells and you can and do find single eggs There are LOTS of laying workers not just one.

Hi Dani thanks for the advice above and pardon my ignorance. It's good to know