Late starter or has the queen been superceded?

[RichardK]

Last August I started 2 Buckfast colonies using queens I bought - they were both marked by the supplier. They were still there in November. Roll forward a couple of months &:

• one I can't find but I know is there . 4 nice frames of brood and starting on the 5th. Either the paint has come off of she was superceded at some point (that said, no obvious supercedure cells on the frames)
• the second I couldn't find a couple of weeks ago (it's been unreasonably warm here since the New Year) when I had a look as I was worried based on far less activity compared to other hives. I decided she was not there and had planned to combine the Buckfast hives. 4 days ago, final check before combining and there was a queen (not marked) but no eggs..... At this point the comparison Buckfast hive was on 4 frames of brood so I assumed this one had been through a supercedure, but hadn't been successfully mated. Today, a fist size section of brood. On the frames there are 3 old presumably supercedure cells.

So the question is when was the supercedure? Late autumn and a very late starter compared to all other hives (Buckfast & Black) or a very early season supercedure in 2022 that miraculously managed to get mated? We've had drones all through winter, however, I thought that after about 28 days they weren't much good for mating.

 

[masterBK]

For pedants : It is "superseded" not "superceded" i.e with an s not a c (since the second part of the word comes from the latin "sedere")

In first case : Bees sometimes break down supersedure queen cells after the queen has emerged leaving no evidence it has occurred. That said, the mark does wear off if a water based Posca pen used so that also likely. I usually have to remark a few queens in spring.

In second case : Supersedures more likely to take place late august/september with spring supersedures mainly triggered I think for below par queens . Last year some queens I reared in early May didn't get mated well and they were more or less all superseded in late june /early july. Too early at the moment to look into bees (so why are you doing it?) and with few sexually mature flying drones in the area to mate with a queen even in your part of France (rarely mate with drones from own colony. If a queen was produced after November it may start to lay soon but as a drone layer. Maybe the queen was superseded soon after you got the bees so in november when you looked you had both mother and unmarked daughter in the hive but only noticed the marked mother. Hopefully she was mated in early autumn but not come into lay yet (It does happen: I had a supersedure on the heather several years ago which killed the mother queen (imperfect supersedure) but didn't lay at all before winter yet was laying OK when I looked in March.

 

[Ian123]

“Too early at the moment to look into bees (so why are you doing it?)”

Because he’s in France

 

[Newbeeneil]

“Too early at the moment to look into bees (so why are you doing it?)”

Because he’s in France

Almost bloody Spain!

 

[Erichalfbee]

For pedants : It is "superseded" not "superceded" i.e with an s not a c (since the second part of the word comes from the latin "sedere")

Both are correct

 

[RichardK]

Maybe the queen was superseded soon after you got the bees so in november when you looked you had both mother and unmarked daughter in the hive but only noticed the marked mother. Hopefully she was mated in early autumn but not come into lay yet (It does happen: I had a supersedure on the heather several years ago which killed the mother queen (imperfect supersedure) but didn't lay at all before winter yet was laying OK when I looked in March.

I opened the hive as it was 22°C today which I appreciate may be a tad warmer than where you are. To be fair, 22°C is a bit weird for here in February but still...

I hadn't realised that queens could not lay at all for 2 months or more in your example, so whilst with my limited knowledge that does still seem pretty unlikely, it still seems more likely than a queen getting mated in January with what can only be regarded as a geriatric drone population. I didn't see any drone brood today.