Large Scale Honey production.. Viable ?

[beebot]

Have you worked out how you sell it and the costs and time involved?

No, that's what I was hoping you would tell me.

 

[iand]

When would you get to sleep?

Yeghes da

Usually between midnight & 4-00am & an afternoon nap thrown in, when moving in mid summer. At other times normal sleep hours. That's with approx 300 hives per man & all to the heather.

 

[Thymallus]

No, that's what I was hoping you would tell me.

As a successful business man I prefer to keep my trading secrets secret. There is enough competition out there already

 

[Into the lions den]

£200 is only 27lb down here if you can sell your honey at £5.50 for 340g which is what I get when I don farmers markets. so not that difficult even if you only get 30lb per hive.

Too simplistic. Probably costs you over 1.00 per lb in reality to take it from bulk product to packed.....cost of jar, label, processing etc etc etc (most smaller scale enterprises get their costs hopelessly underestimated and count their time as free as they would not be doing anything else anyway.)

Then how much does your stand at the market cost you? Getting to and from it? The share of wear and tear and depreciation on the car/van?

A friend does local ones and talks about how much he makes at the average market, but it NOT the amount that he makes, he is saying how much he TAKES, which is a country mile from what you MAKE. Cold analysis of his figures showed that for half the markets he actually made a small loss. Yes he sold 4 or 5 hundred pounds worth, but the net return on the honey ( retail price minus packing costs ), minus the costs involved in doing the market, almost invariably resulted in a lower net yield on his honey than if he sold it in bulk to a trader and sat at home. (OR...use the time to do more bees and make more bulk honey.......its the most profitable of all.)

Did a similar exercise with a guy who made candles from his beeswax. Beautiful candles they were too, and he would stay up till 2am or so getting them ready for the market. After all he got a lot more for his wax that way! Right? Well yes he did, but going through the exercise in full with correct attribution of costs he was actually earning a little over 25p an hour as against just selling his wax in bulk.

You MUST check out the cost effectiveness of everything that is done. Higher price to the public or to retail outlets is very often more than offset by the costs of doing it. Not often taken into account is an unseen cost of all the faffing about doing deliveries in the bee season, talking to customers, manning stands when the bees want to swarm. How much EXTRA bulk could you produce if you just sell in bulk and devote all that time saved to actually keeping more bees or keeping the ones you yhave better?

When we did that calculation in our own business, happily retail packing and selling all over the UK, and looked at the alternative strategy of bulk only and keeping more bees (use the freed up time, don't waste it!) the answer was stark. Now not packed a jar for many years. Best decision ever. Immediately with the freed up time at busy spells we were able to run 60% more bees. That extra production is way more than any profit on packing.

Reasons for packing and selling your own brand are many and some of them are illusions, some are profitable, some just because that's how the beekeeper likes to do it.

Customers and selling/marketing (they are not the same) effort just devour your time. If its a pleasure to you then fine, but if you are trying to make money you have to control what that eats up.

Back to original point...yes you CAN make a profit out of beekeeping. 8 of us make our living here with seasonal part timers on top of that. 2650 approx. will go to the heather this year.

At 300 colonies you are pushing your luck on having a regular income, so would suggest 400 is more like it to cover all costs, infrastructure etc, drops a bit for subsequent employees operating out of the same sheds etc and using same vehicle(s). You need something to go for that is a bit more than a plain low yield blossom honey environment. We are lucky insofar as we have heather and migrate everything to it, averaging just a whisker shy of 20Kg per year of this premium honey. I would be severely challenged to make a profit out of blossom honey alone, hence we regard it as merely a by product of preparing bees for heather time, whereas on long term averages we can be in profit by heather alone. For stability you need to have a break even point at no more than 60 to 70% of an *average* crop, and be honest about your averages. Include ALL colonies that involve work, not just producers, and forget the vanity level averages many beekeepers give out. Work on what you REALLY get. Other wise you are fooling everyone, most of all yourself.

 

[REDWOOD]

My full time job does not sound that bad now lol

 

[Thymallus]

You MUST check out the cost effectiveness of everything that is done. Higher price to the public or to retail outlets is very often more than offset by the costs of doing it. Not often taken into account is an unseen cost of all the faffing about doing deliveries in the bee season,

Spot on and thanks for taking the trouble to point all this out. It's amazing what a good set of accounts tells you and how you can fool yourself.
My accounts show that in monetary terms we make 1/3 "profit" on total income over a year with stall fees, diesel, jars etc etc. IF however I add in my time and pay myself the basic wage it's a huge loss maker.
To say nothing of the that 1/3 not covering the cost of annual equipment costs. I actually would be better off selling buckets wholesale at £2.20 lb, but I enjoy the markets.
For me it's a hobby that offsets some of my costs.
I take my hat off to those who do make a living from it.

 

[sipa]

Well, I rest my case. Thank you ITLD.

We make quite a nice living out of bees, but not via honey production.

It's a contributor, but not the main one.

Run it like a proper business, whilst providing an exceptional product and you will prosper, otherwise you are doomed to fail.

 

[daroco]

So is the main profit to be made in selling nucs? And has anyone had success with 'managed hives'?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Reminder, this thread is about.........Large Scale Honey production.. Viable ?

 

[Chris B]

So is the main profit to be made in selling nucs? And has anyone had success with 'managed hives'?

No, at least not for everybody due to risk of market saturation. I do sell bees but only as a sideline to honey production - it's too risky longer term to rely on in my view. On the other hand honey production has plenty of room to grow as a market. Hence my own model is all about producing higher yields more efficiently.

 

[sipa]

Why then, if there is significant space in the honey market is the bulk price so heavily constrained.

Doesn't work for me I'm afraid.

 

[Chris B]

Why then, if there is significant space in the honey market is the bulk price so heavily constrained.

Is it? Bulk price has always tracked the retail price at 40 to 50% for as long as I can remember. Seems fair enough to me. I'm glad I'm not a dairy farmer.

 

[BrianO]

Brilliant thread.. Who started it.. Me ... Well done Me !!!

Joking aside , reading from start to last thread fascinating , to hear from the Market staller's to ITLD /serious production and Chris B.

Thanks.. Really fascinating ! and an eye opener for those considering such a venture .. keep it coming !

 

[tidymeup]

This is a difficult road to go down so far, at 80 colonies it's allot of work and little return. I am sure however there is light at the end of the tunnel if I ever catch sight of it.

 

[foghornleghorn]

This is a difficult road to go down so far, at 80 colonies it's allot of work and little return. I am sure however there is light at the end of the tunnel if I ever catch sight of it.

A lot depends on how you run it, my grandfather ran 100 hives well into his 80's without to much work

 

[tidymeup]

Agreed, realistically the management takes me 1 day per week but add in the deliveries etc it's allot more.

 

[sipa]

aye lad.... you don't make owt fer nowt.

 

[Hawklord]

No doubt there is more hive management than there used to be. How many hours per year does it take to manage a colony? I would think that it wouldn't cost a great deal as far as frames, wax, medication etc.

 

[For want of a better word]

Has to be said that the 2 hive owners will spend far much more time on their pet bees, over 40 colonies and there is no possible way to spend an hour on each every 7 days carrying out the full inspection as prescribed by the numerous beekeepering manuals!

Did someone one here say 2 minutes per colony......

Sorry drifting away from the OP... but relevant as time is money.

Selling in bulk?... just galls me to see the product that has been so difficultly gleaned being sold for a song.
We cut out the middleman and sell direct and still manage a profit... a very marginal one!..... but there is so much cudos in being told that YOUR honey is the best... isn't everyone's!!!

 

[Into the lions den]

I actually would be better off selling buckets wholesale at £2.20 lb, but I enjoy the markets.

A harvest in itself. It is wrong just to measure harvests in pounds and pence as not everyone is doing it to keep the mortgage paid.

Monetary returns give the 'Standard of living' rewards.
Pleasure in what you do gives the 'Quality of life' rewards.

They are equally valid.

However the thread WAS about making a living. It can be done but expect to really thrash your body in the key months. The bees ALWAYS have to come first in season.

I regard myself as one of the luckiest people around as I am privileged enough to make my living doing what I love, and if I get spare time I just want to go and do more bees. You cannot get anywhere in this game without really enjoying doing bees and devoting yourself to their welfare. This point is often lost on amateurs, especially the new and easily lead, hearing about the 'evils' of greedy commercial beekeepers. They miss the crucial point, we are essentially the same, just some are lucky enough to have it as the day job.

Getting the bees to give more honey, more nucs, anything of their main attributes in fact, is a measure of their health and the care and effort the beekeeper puts in. Migrating them when they need to be, feeding judiciously, watching their health. Those and countless other factors are in your everyday thoughts. Poorly cared for bees rarely give good harvests. Higher crops are not greed, they are the consequence of better husbandry.

FWIW....husbandry includes location selection, floral knowledge, and judicious migration. Not just the stuff you read in the bee books.