Lanstroth V National hive

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National 18" and 1/8th square
Commercial 18" and 5/16th square

.....work it out (there's little in it).
 
The figure comes from a series of phone calls to the major hive manufacturers in the UK asking them approximately what percentage of the different types of hives they sold. The figures were all approximate but broadly speaking they were the same between the various suppliers. Approx 90% Nationals, 5% Langstroth and the remaining 5% were a mixture (smith, dadant, TBH, Warre etc).

Ross


Ross, the numbers are slippery.
Very few National hives would be imported direct (as opposed to through agents).
However many of those attracted to the American way, would be buying in bulk and very likely from overseas (where prices way below T's can be found).
Hence I would expect the proportion to be higher than reported by the UK retailers, but it would be hard to estimate just how much higher.
Similarly, I'd suggest that TBHs would be greatly under-represented in the retailer's figures because so many are home-built or bought through specialists.

A sample of what the retailers are selling can be far from the whole story!
 
I would go double national/smith... i don't mind checking the extra frames and the extra laid out frames are nice to make increase from... but i guess each have advantages and disadvantages
 
Using national deeps are good for using one size frame method too. If you have bad back you could use all shallow boxes and frames
 
The figure comes from a series of phone calls to the major hive manufacturers in the UK asking them approximately what percentage of the different types of hives they sold. The figures were all approximate but broadly speaking they were the same between the various suppliers. Approx 90% Nationals, 5% Langstroth and the remaining 5% were a mixture (smith, dadant, TBH, Warre etc).
Fair enough, it's a recent survey of what the largest UK manufacturers say they sell. A few problems with linking that as equal to the number of hives in the UK though.

Th0rnes used to claim WBC was their second best selling hive, and 14x12 is increasingly popular. The numbers might make sense if 90% covered all the national frame based variants, even Dartington and Beehaus. But to claim that a WBC hive is the same as a National, same as a Beehaus is stretching the category a bit.

The number of hives sold at any point recently takes no account of how many were sold in the past and are still in use. There are many elderly Nationals and Commercials still in service. And many of them are home made or from a local wood worker. Commercial brood boxes were certainly more popular locally, you're probably underestimating them.

TBH, Warre and a few other types are going to be mostly home made. There are a few old models still going and foreign specialities personally imported, such as French Dadant Blatt or Eastern European long hives.

A good number of langstroths are used by the largest operators. They usually import directly and if ITLD is typical, the recent ones are probably poly langstroths from people like Swienty or Lyson. They also import frames directly so don't figure in any UK supplier estimates.

There are quite a few smaller suppliers who stock European poly hives, mostly langstroth. Not manufacturers as such but supplied and used in the UK.

You might find some approximations partly cancel each other out, older Nationals increase the percentage while direct imports of other formats decrease it. But there's no ovious way of estimating the correction either way. My guess would be that many go to big manufacturers for wooden nationals, but their sales underrepresent other formats in use.
 
To be honest, who really cares? If you use Langstroth and like it, they are the best; if you use National and like it they are best. If you don't like what you have, change!
 
To be honest, who really cares? If you use Langstroth and like it, they are the best; if you use National and like it they are best. If you don't like what you have, change!

Sums the subject up nicely.
 
To be honest, who really cares? If you use Langstroth and like it, they are the best; if you use National and like it they are best. If you don't like what you have, change!



I did. Used to run cedar double brood Nationals and then switched over to cedar Commercials.

Best choice I ever made.
 
To be honest, who really cares? If you use Langstroth and like it, they are the best; if you use National and like it they are best. If you don't like what you have, change!

:iagree:

Succinct and to the point I like both but am sticking to nationals - some people like 14x12, but there's no accounting for taste :D
 
All very well but it's a discussion forum. I enjoy reading other peoples reasons and opinions for keeping their choice of hive. I care.
 
I have nationals and have had some on doubles there is a bit more work in them but I like the frame size and the long lugs.

I have made my own commercial hive and I think with the bigger frames there is less 'nest' disturbance. I hate it when lifting the top national box and half the frames of the bottom box come out at the same time. But I do find the frame lugs on a commercial to small and fiddly to be confident with.

So I am starting to look at 14x12's in a different light but I have spent all the money I care to on this hobby so I am not.....must not.....really cant......shouldn’t.........ohhh they are shiny.......change my boxes now
 
:iagree: thats why i set this thread
its been good reading Ely
Alan
Indeed. Ultimately it's whatever you choose to go with and it's usually only yourself (and your bees) you have to account for. That doesn't mean we shouldn't occasionally work out how much evidence there is. "Question Everything", a quote that appears under Einstein, Karl Marx and Euripides among others.
 
There must be a reason why Langstroth is the most popular hive worldwide?

hysteresis

(Langstroth did removable frame hives first and did them well enough that any marginal benefit of successor designs has been insufficient to overturn their dominance)
 
hysteresis

(Langstroth did removable frame hives first and did them well enough that any marginal benefit of successor designs has been insufficient to overturn their dominance)

Inertia, surely?
 
just to confuse things i have happily run LS poly hives using standard national frames warm-way.

How did you get the rebates done for the lugs?

a) by taking some material away from the original box, using an overhead router?

b) by adding something like battens or similar things?


Regards
Reiner
 
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To be honest, who really cares? If you use Langstroth and like it, they are the best; if you use National and like it they are best. If you don't like what you have, change!

I do agree with the big G
 

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