Langstroth to national

[BEEBEGIN]

Hi All
On taking advice from other members(thank you)I am changing one of my hives to a National from a Langstroth.
So once I have put the new hive on the top,changed the queen excluder to the top of the new hive,(14x12) appropriately how long will it take for the queen to climb in and the rest of the bee's to follow?
Also how long to close off the lower entrance (the entrance in the over wintered Langstroth) please.
Thank you.
RNG

 

[Poly Hive]

You need to make an adapter first, a bit of ply that will allow your Langstroth box to be covered, and in it make a hole which will expose most of your National.

Given that your Nat is going to be a pretty big super I would wait until your Langstroth has a good 8 frames of brood before you start this.

You will continue to let the bees use the Langstroth entrance until the National is well in use, then put in your excluder between.

When you are at that point switch them round and three weeks later you can take off the Langstroth.

PH

 

[MuswellMetro]

live Dangerously, do a shook swarm in the first weeks of April and feed light syrup

should bring them on faster

 

[BEEBEGIN]

You need to make an adapter first, a bit of ply that will allow your Langstroth box to be covered, and in it make a hole which will expose most of your National.

Given that your Nat is going to be a pretty big super I would wait until your Langstroth has a good 8 frames of brood before you start this.

You will continue to let the bees use the Langstroth entrance until the National is well in use, then put in your excluder between.

When you are at that point switch them round and three weeks later you can take off the Langstroth.

PH

Hi PH
Thank you,have already made the converter.
And yes I agree that it is a big box ontop.
The bit I am not sure of in your explanation is you say switch around the hives when reaching thepoint of were the Nat is in full use,if you do't mind me asking why do you put the Lanstrothe back on the top??
I already have 8 frames plus so I presume that it is ok to put on the NAT hive?
Also do I not need to have the queen excluder on the top of the Nat hive while letting them use the new and old?
So following on you say put the exluder between the two hives,I am presuming that you need to see if the queen has gone up to the new hive?
Sorry to go on a bit.
RNG

Were there is will there is a way.MMM

 

[BEEBEGIN]

live Dangerously, do a shook swarm in the first weeks of April and feed light syrup

should bring them on faster

Hi
Yes some one else said that in fact it was the local bee club commitee chairman.
I have bought these bees a long way all through the winter and they are a very large colony I would not like to loose them now.But thanks for the advice.
RNG
PS I don't think I am that brave yet(coward at heart)

 

[Poly Hive]

If you have a wee think there will be brood in both boxes?

Hence the switch around.

PH

 

[drstitson]

to expand on PH's answer - your new nat box will get drawn and queen will start using but you will still have the LS box to clear of brood AND prevent queen from laying further.

hence the QE and swap around meaning that once LS is empty you can remove it without disturbing HM below.

 

[RoofTops]

I must ask why you are going down this UK-unique route? If you need a larger frame go for Jumbo Langstroth, there are plenty in Hampshire using it already. The alternative, which is where my colonies are all going is to use the "Farrar" system as it known in some parts of Europe. All frames are Dadant Shallow (aka Langstroth Medium or Langstroth 3/4). It means going for a double brood box from the outset but the advantages of having all the same frames thoughout the hive are worth it in my view.

The 14 * 12 is a good frame for those who find the standard Nationals they already have too small but going to it from Langstroth seems a somewhat retrograde step, given you already have Langstroth supers, queen excluders etc. You are also cutting yourself off from cheaper European sourced frames and things.

 

[Poly Hive]

I was doing some rough costings last night for poly Lang from Poland. I need to double check the figures but it goes like this:

Brood 18.7

Roof 13.5

Floor 14.2

I am buying three complete Langstroths to resupply my 6 Langstroth nucs. I can make from four brood boxes five supers. As I will need 3 per colony I will need to cut down 8 to make 10. Nearest number to what I want.

So 11 broods, 3 floors and roofs plus £10 to send the money over.

Total (above figures all in euros) 288.8

converted to £ is £252 + £10 = £262

Per colony plus three supers = £87.33

Same from Swienty is 315 euros so allowing for transport costs a good deal from Poland.

From a well known supplier in the UK in timber it is a shocking £536.94. And that on last years price list as I ain't bothered to d/l this years laugh.

PH

 

[BEEBEGIN]

Hives

Hi All
Thank you all for the reply's and suggestions,yes i know that I am going to probably more expensive parts etc.But I already have made and built four other Nationals so it would be silly(I think,not a lot)to go to one LS for the sake of one colony meaning it is a nuisance(at least this is what I found last year)whenyou nat to swap around parts etc.
So once again thanks for the money advice.

And yes stupid me(PH),its my brain going ahead in to much of a hurry!!!(I think its called senility)
Of course,but I know this is obvious but any idea aprox how long can this all take?Give or take a week or two?I presume that I will get the spring honey ie my girls are in a very large orchard,so will I get any benefits or is it all for them?
RNG

 

[Poly Hive]

I would allow a month.

PH

 

[BEEBEGIN]

to expand on PH's answer - your new nat box will get drawn and queen will start using but you will still have the LS box to clear of brood AND prevent queen from laying further.

hence the QE and swap around meaning that once LS is empty you can remove it without disturbing HM below.

Hi Again Clever people,
One last question about swapping these boxes please.
It has now been two weeks with the NTL box ontop.
How soon if at all do I need or rather when do I close off the bottom entrance?
And thank you all again for all the very good anweres.
Regards
RNG

 

[BEEBEGIN]

I would allow a month.

PH

Hi PH,
Sorry do not know your real name.
Any way by the by.
I have just been reading again all the clever people's answer's.
This business of why am i going from LH hives?
I was just wondering what the cost would be to build one of these etc.
I would need more queen excl etc ?
Do you build your own or do by them?
The cost of building a NL is approx £30.00 all in (ie roof etc.)
So is the LS cheaper to make?
Not that it really matters,just interested.
lets hope this is going to be a good honey year as we have so much blossum.
Ray G

 

[Poly Hive]

If you read back through the thread you will see I have quoted poly prices for Langstroth.

It's not worth buying Lang int he UK, look further afield but obviously be aware of transport.

I will just add this, given my choice, free of any financial constraints I would go for poly Lang over any other type. But that is me.


PH