Langstroth split

[solonik29]

Hi,

I am planning some splits for this spring from 2 strong colonies kept in 10 Frame Langstroths. Looking for advice if creating 2 x 2 frame Nucs from each colonies is OK or this could be too damaging for the colonies?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Ian123]

I’d suggest letting your colonies develop into a second box then splitting off a couple of nucs. There’s no damage to be done provided there a reasonable size, location and weather/season will all play a part. You’ll have to judge when is the best time as each colony develops.

 

[solonik29]

Hi Ian,

Thanks, do you mean to put a second brood box in the spring with 10 frames and wait to build a larger colony before splitting?

 

[Sanntos]

It's easier to succeed with 2-frame splits if you have comb. And it's easier for a bigger colony to build comb.

 

[Ian123]

Hi Ian,

Thanks, do you mean to put a second brood box in the spring with 10 frames and wait to build a larger colony before splitting?

Yes that’s what I’d suggest, am guessing your intention is just to add a couple of brought in queens early on.? Your splits will develop or bounce back quicker the larger you can make them.

 

[solonik29]

Yes, Ian I was planning to split into 6 frame nucs (with 2 frame + shaked nurse bees), take the nucs to another location, then come and destroy all queen cells and make the colony queen hopeless before introducing new queens. Thanks for suggesting about the second box I did not consider this but I think it make sense.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

you're better off just putting the new queens straight in as soon as you split them, but personally I think you're spreading the bees out a bit thinly if you're going to do it all in one hit.

 

[Finman]

Hi,

I am planning some splits for this spring from 2 strong colonies kept in 10 Frame Langstroths. Looking for advice if creating 2 x 2 frame Nucs from each colonies is OK or this could be too damaging for the colonies?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Let the hives first grow up to 3 langstroth boxes.

If you make 2 frame nuc, its ability to grow goes to zero and the parent colony looses its build up ability.

Wait that you get couple of escaped swarms in May and in June.

 

[solonik29]

Thanks Finman,

I would agree that two frame nuc is probably going to be a very weak colony. I am planing to build the colonies into 2 brood boxes and then transferring 5-6 frames into 6 frame nucs.

I am not 100% confident with expanding the colonies into 3 brood boxes each, I think this will take a very long time as I do not have any drawn frames.

 

[madasafish]

I personally find the langstroth format and two frames is too deep round here as the weather is very variable in Spring - we can get a week of cold rain /frosts. I use nothing less than 4 frames in Spring. Fewer works in Summer. All 6 weeks of it

 

[Finman]

Thanks Finman,

I would agree that two frame nuc is probably going to be a very weak colony. I am planing to build the colonies into 2 brood boxes and then transferring 5-6 frames into 6 frame nucs.

I am not 100% confident with expanding the colonies into 3 brood boxes each, I think this will take a very long time as I do not have any drawn frames.

Colony draws frames when they need.
Limiting factors are the size of cluster and the time of brood development.

If you have one box full of bees, they can grow 8 frames brood. It takes 4 weeks, when the colony starts to grow, and it can achieve 3 box size after 6 weeks.

If you have 2 frame colony, it can make only half frame of brood. After 4 weeks you have got about 2 frames of bees actually your colony has not expanded.

A good queen, like buckfast can fill 2 langstroth boxes brood. After 6 weeks that hive can be 8 boxes full of bees.

You understand, that the queen msy be what ever good, but it cannot use its ability to lay, if the nuc is practically nothing.

If you have in July 8 boxes bees in one hive, you can make quite many hives from this gang.

But if the queen is an average layer, you may have 4 boxes bees who knows?

If the swarms escape from you, it is called "experience".

 

[Finman]

If you have a good hive and it is expanding good way, you have a splended opportunity to spoil it, if you are greedy. You can take some brood frames from the hive, and the you take off the future nurser bees, which was intended to feed future brood of expanding hive.

A good nuc or nucs, which you make, cannot produce as much bees like that good hive alone. And if foragers of the nucs return home hive, build up of the nucs stops for next 4 weeks

I know that a new beekeeper does not know what he is doing. He sacrifies his yield. He could take a normal yield, and with that money he could buy swarms or nuvs or what ever.

But for goodness sake , do not try to make foundationless combs.

Biggest fault you can make, if you start to grow your own queens to the nucs.