Keeping swarms just breeds swarmy bees (?)

[Cussword]

I would never automatically re queen a swarm, it doesn't make sense to.

 

[Cussword]

Yay, I'm a drone


.

 

[sugarbush]

Dr Seeley has done much research which suggests that there is a positive link between a colonies swarming tendency and it's ability to survive Varroa.

 

[Zante]

That's my point. We requeen the colonies with undesirable qualities. Shouldn't that mean automatically requeening a swarm.

Not necessarily. A swarm doesn't necessarily come from smarmy bees. There are many reasons bees swarm (or abscond). Bad management, as mentioned, a particularly good year where the buildup is quicker than expected... How many threads have we seen here about people not being able to do inspections for whatever reason and being worried about swarms leaving?

You could have a swarm coming from a hive with very docile and productive bees who have absconded because the owner is unable to look after them, or is inexperienced.

Automatic requeening of such a swarm would loose you those good genetics.

You don't automatically rehome a cat because it scratched someone once because it's "scratchy"

Dr Seeley has done much research which suggests that there is a positive link between a colonies swarming tendency and it's ability to survive Varroa.

That makes sense, they aren't carrying brood with them after all...

 

[beeno]

That's my point. We requeen the colonies with undesirable qualities. Shouldn't that mean automatically requeening a swarm.

Not IMHO as you would throw the baby out with the bathwater. I try to keep as many genetic lines as possible to stop inbreeding. All my colonies are from swarms and they are not swarmy bees.
I would be more dubious buying colonies from small time 'breeders' as they may be profit maximisers and swarmy bees would facilitate that objective.

 

[Motobiman]

And/or/but 'undesirable qualities' has to be defined and may be very different depending on a number of variables.

 

[Robbo8916]

They're doing it again! Just inspected and found what you would see as a perfect colony, lovely new queen, bias, lovely laying pattern, plenty of stores. Three unused frames of foundation.

And TWO swarm cells!

 

[midnight sun]

They're doing it again! Just inspected and found what you would see as a perfect colony, lovely new queen, bias, lovely laying pattern, plenty of stores. Three unused frames of foundation.

And TWO swarm cells!

Just PM'ed you.

 

[Robbo8916]

Just PM'ed you.

Replied. Thanks

 

[Motobiman]

They're doing it again! Just inspected and found what you would see as a perfect colony, lovely new queen, bias, lovely laying pattern, plenty of stores. Three unused frames of foundation.

And TWO swarm cells!

One hive of mine was the same Friday, all looked fine with BIAS and an excellent brood pattern, stores and space to lay and there's a neat row of five capped Q cells along the bottom of one frame, one of which hatched right into my hand and the another into a cage when I popped the nearly ready to go cap off.

They certainly have a mind of their own.

 

[Robbo8916]

One hive of mine was the same Friday, all looked fine with BIAS and an excellent brood pattern, stores and space to lay and there's a neat row of five capped Q cells along the bottom of one frame, one of which hatched right into my hand and the another into a cage when I popped the nearly ready to go cap off.

They certainly have a mind of their own.

Indeed. Having discussed it with midnight sun and a couple of others we have come to the conclusion that they may be supersedure cells as the new queen's pheromones haven't been distributed strongly enough yet.

Anyway I am going to check again in a few days. Going to move some frames around soon to try and get them drawn while we have a week of good weather coming up.

 

[Motobiman]

Indeed. Having discussed it with midnight sun and a couple of others we have come to the conclusion that they may be supersedure cells as the new queen's pheromones haven't been distributed strongly enough yet.

Anyway I am going to check again in a few days. Going to move some frames around soon to try and get them drawn while we have a week of good weather coming up.

I can see that as a possible issue in a large hive but in one brood box?

 

[Robbo8916]

I can see that as a possible issue in a large hive but in one brood box?

Not sure but there were only two this time as opposed to the 6 they had last time.

 

[Ely]

Some of the reasons bees swarm are desirable, for example good spring build up.

I don't think catching swarms makes your bees any more swarmy than getting them off fellow beeks. However, if you're raising your own queens and have done some form of selection - swarms may not be helpful.

Given that all queens open mate unless you like on a island or are undertaking some pretty specialised queen rearing you're not going to breed out the tendency to swarm when the hive is strong because you have zero control over the drones the queen mate with. Even if you flood the area with 'nice' drones.

The best bet is to master swarm control.

I agree. Master swarm control and swarming becomes much less of a problem. Work with the bees.

 

[midnight sun]

Indeed. Having discussed it with midnight sun and a couple of others we have come to the conclusion that they may be supersedure cells as the new queen's pheromones haven't been distributed strongly enough yet.

Anyway I am going to check again in a few days. Going to move some frames around soon to try and get them drawn while we have a week of good weather coming up.

Remember, that was just one topic in the conversation...

 

[beeno]

I agree. Master swarm control and swarming becomes much less of a problem. Work with the bees.

Master swarm prevention and swarm control becomes much less of a problem.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Master swarm prevention and swarm control becomes much less of a problem.

That's my next project after inventing an anti-gravity machine.

Dusty

 

[Motobiman]

Understand your flippancy Dusty but if the options are do nothing or do something, personally I will go for the later.

Damping it down is probably the best we can hope for and learning to work around it is the management scheme I am using.

 

[Tomo]

Just a thought about the quality of Queens......if you wanted to win the grand national you wouldn't enter a donkey for the race, you would use a thoroughbred horse bred for the purpose of winning.

 

[Zante]

Just a thought about the quality of Queens......if you wanted to win the grand national you wouldn't enter a donkey for the race, you would use a thoroughbred horse bred for the purpose of winning.

But not everyone enters the grand national. There are a lot of people who are happy with a walk or a gallop in the countriside, and some even have carts to pull.