Keeping bees in yoru garden

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I look at the pictures of German beekeeping with children playing unprotected beside hives and think we are doing something wrong...

yes, putting bees in them.

remember the movies of holiday camps for certain members of society they showed in the early 1940's ?

 

[Bearhouse]

Pargyle...that's hilarious, thank you
Stan's OK suffering, I think he quite likes it
He enjoys being busy and he will enjoy making the box, both the planning, putting up with my criticisms and actually constructing it.
I think he would draw the line at hollowing out a log, though

I went to a talk by the natural beekeeping bods the other week, and they will sell you a hive that looks like a hollowed out log, ready to stick up a tree!! No idea of the cost, but it didn't sound cheap.

 

[thorn]

The usual rule of thumb to avoid statutory nuisance is two or three.

Is there a source for your "rule of thumb"?

And thinking of statutory nuisance, has anyone on this forum ever been served with a notice of abatement, or have firsthand knowledge of anyone who has been served? As many of you know, I'm trying to find out about any legal actions against beekeepers to assist with questions like this. In my thirtynine years in legal practice neither I nor my partners and staff were ever consulted about a bee related problem, and neither did I come across any in the legal periodicals or case books. But I've been retired for a year now and for all I know it may have become a big earner for the profession.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

yes, putting bees in them.

remember the movies of holiday camps for certain members of society they showed in the early 1940's ?

There used to be some in the 1950s with tennis playing ladies who had forgotten to put their clothes on. Something about freedom if I recall correctly.

 

[alldigging]

Is there a source for your "rule of thumb"?

And thinking of statutory nuisance, has anyone on this forum ever been served with a notice of abatement, or have firsthand knowledge of anyone who has been served? As many of you know, I'm trying to find out about any legal actions against beekeepers to assist with questions like this. In my thirtynine years in legal practice neither I nor my partners and staff were ever consulted about a bee related problem, and neither did I come across any in the legal periodicals or case books. But I've been retired for a year now and for all I know it may have become a big earner for the profession.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beekeeping-Law-Neighbours-David-Frimston/dp/0905652258

There is not much case law.

I suspect it's down to the local environmental health team to decide in the first instance. If your bees stop your neighbour enjoying their garden because they swarm in constantly or attack their dog or children, then yes that's a nuisance. Bees flying over head aren't a nuisance.

There are some neighbours who try to tell people that bees are scary and that you should run if you ever see any. The sickening frustrating part is when they are also beekeepers - or have been.

A person is entitled to use their land in a reasonable way. A reasonable number of bees, well kept, and well looked after is not necessarily a nuisance just because someone complains.

In Tickner v. White the summing up says no nuisance by three hives - comparing to other cases of 20-30 hives and 150 hives.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I went to a talk by the natural beekeeping bods the other week, and they will sell you a hive that looks like a hollowed out log, ready to stick up a tree!! No idea of the cost, but it didn't sound cheap.

Really?
Perhaps I could put a flow super on it, minimal disturbance and al that

 

[Tremyfro]

Really?
Perhaps I could put a flow super on it, minimal disturbance and al that

Don't forget it will have to be a Langstroth Log.

When I think about it, all my hives are in the garden. My Bee Yard is about 5 metres from the house. The bees mainly fly out away from the house across the fields...but also to my daughters garden, next door. ATM they are flying around the house to go to the fireweed and ragwort beyond the pond.
In fact they fly in all directions depending on the forage.
Sometimes the children get stung...they run around with nothing on their feet.
Our nearest neighbours are several fields away though.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Is there a source for your "rule of thumb"?

And thinking of statutory nuisance, has anyone on this forum ever been served with a notice of abatement, or have firsthand knowledge of anyone who has been served? As many of you know, I'm trying to find out about any legal actions against beekeepers to assist with questions like this. In my thirtynine years in legal practice neither I nor my partners and staff were ever consulted about a bee related problem, and neither did I come across any in the legal periodicals or case books. But I've been retired for a year now and for all I know it may have become a big earner for the profession.

As @alldigging says, there is not a lot of case law


Good summary here http://www.beekeeping.org.uk/bee_law.pdf

Have tried to chase the citations back with limited success except the Irish ones (pre-partition) here http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/consultation papers/wpAnimals.htm

I can't find @alldigging's Tickner v White (you presumably have the resources; it would be kind to post back) but it would seem an excellent source for the 2-3 rule of thumb.

Looking at the case history, you are not going to get rich on this. And please note, as pointed out above, none of this applies to the 0.0000015625 pct of the population which owns Woburn Abbey.

 

[Motobiman]

Thanks for this.

In the linked paper, the case of INGAMELL’S v PICKFORD [ENGLAND] 1986

I wonder if the court addressed the issue of the complainant proving the stings received were actually bee stings and that the offending bees were from the beekeepers hives?

 

[alldigging]

Thanks for this.

In the linked paper, the case of INGAMELL’S v PICKFORD [ENGLAND] 1986

I wonder if the court addressed the issue of the complainant proving the stings received were actually bee stings and that the offending bees were from the beekeepers hives?

The editor's notes say:

The judge discounted the stings recieved by the workmen as he considered they had contributed towards their misfortune.
Soiling of washing he considered to be minor and occaisional. Nothing could be done about this.
Reference to the stings he averaged the number of stings as two per year, this he did not consider to be unreasonable.

 

[alldigging]

I can't find @alldigging's Tickner v White (you presumably have the resources; it would be kind to post back) but it would seem an excellent source for the 2-3 rule of thumb.

Would it be ok with Admin to post the scanned pages of the case?

 

[Motobiman]

The editor's notes say:

The judge discounted the stings recieved by the workmen as he considered they had contributed towards their misfortune.
Soiling of washing he considered to be minor and occaisional. Nothing could be done about this.
Reference to the stings he averaged the number of stings as two per year, this he did not consider to be unreasonable.

Ok thanks so clearly he didn't address the issue of whose bees they were or even if they were bees stings.

Also suggests a last ditch defence of the complainant waving arms about and panicking is contributing to his own misfortune

 

[thorn]

Would it be ok with Admin to post the scanned pages of the case?

Do you have a copy of the report of the case? I can see no reason why it shouldn't be posted. Or perhaps you could pm it to me.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Would it be ok with Admin to post the scanned pages of the case?

Pop up the formal citation and I should be able to dig it out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[alldigging]

Pop up the formal citation and I should be able to dig it out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have sent you a PM

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I have sent you a PM

Thanks; sorry, missed the first one.

 

[Al-In-Italy]

Pargyle...that's hilarious, thank you
Stan's OK suffering, I think he quite likes it
He enjoys being busy and he will enjoy making the box, both the planning, putting up with my criticisms and actually constructing it.
I think he would draw the line at hollowing out a log, though

Perhaps you and Stan would find this two day course helpful: http://www.naturalbeekeepingtrust.org/event-jonathan-workshop-germany-oct-16

The course costs €190 and for a mere €100 more you would come home with an appropriate log.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Actually I quite fancy one of those mud things that Heidi has. Stan could make it, the grandkids would enjoy the mud plastering and I could macrame a tent to keep the rain off

 

[Bearhouse]

Actually I quite fancy one of those mud things that Heidi has. Stan could make it, the grandkids would enjoy the mud plastering and I could macrame a tent to keep the rain off

 

[oliver90owner]

Proportion of nasty temperament queens maybe down to o local factors. 2nd generation of docile strains, the other colonies in the locale are two obvious factors. Likely there are more if one thinks about it. I have one apiary where most new colonies are ''less than docile''.