Is it a silly question

[ratcatcher]

not really thought of asking before, but
you get supersedure cells and swarm cells,
so swarm cells get made and as the name suggests, the bees swarm, but with a supersedure cell, am I right that, thats made when the bees aint happy with the queen and want to replace her?
and if thats correct, does that mean that swarming is the last thing on their mind, and that once one emerges, they kill the resident queen and carry on as normal....

????

or should I get the books out again

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No - you are correct. But as you know bees don't always read the books some will have what they are convinced is a supersedure cell in a hive - and they swarm anyway!

 

[oliver90owner]

once one emerges, they kill the resident queen and carry on as normal....

And another no. Eventually, yes, but presumably not always! Mated, and laying worker brood would be sensible before dispensing with old queen. More likely resident queen would be gone if of no further use to the colony - drone laying 100%, or if pegging between onset of supercedure and completion.

 

[ijcooper]

You hear tales of both mother and daughter supersedure queens together in the same hive for months. Never seen it myself.

 

[Travelator]

You hear tales of both mother and daughter supersedure queens together in the same hive for months. Never seen it myself.

I have seen it for myself.

From the bees' point of view, it would certainly make sense to keep the old queen in place until the new one is definitely laying. I don't know what stops the queens from attacking each other in this setup, though - maybe they both have minders.

 

[MartinL]

Always thought HM was more or less directed by the workers/atendants where to go/lay as they moved ahead of her preparing the cells etc?

 

[Teemore]

Mother and daughter don't really need minders. If you ever come across them, they are often on the same frame and both will appear to be laying away. Inspect enough hives and you will see queens clambering around over frames and over other bees, often feeding themselves. A lot of published material would suggest this never happens. The workers do polish cells for a Q to lay in and I have found that the presence of polished worker cells in a hive or Nuc is a good indication that a recently mated Q is about to start laying.

Whilst it wasn't supercedure, I recently came across mother and daughter Queens in a Nuc I was minding for a friend. The Nuc had been made up as a swarm control measure, laying Q and a couple of frames of brood. What the beekeeper missed was a queen cell on one frame. I checked the Nuc a fortnight after it arrived with me and found an emerged QC and on the next frame, mother and daughter queens. Neither were piping or trying to attack each other. Rightly or wrongly, I moved daughter into a Queen cage and then into an apidea at my friend's home apiary. Hopefully that move did not delay, confuse or interrupt her mating flights!! The original laying Queen is now relocated to a full box in a new beekeeper's apiary and that colony is progressing very nicely.

 

[drstitson]

here you go.

 

[meltonbees]

here you go.

Wow nice, double the laying ...


Loads of Bees

 

[oliver90owner]

Wow nice, double the laying ...

Not necessarily so.

Think about it!

They were not superceding the old queen for no good reason!

They don't lay up too much brood over winter.

The new queen may still be a virgin.

So certainly not a foregone conclusion