Irritable Bees

[ToGGoT]

Hi Guys, first time poster here

Will start from the beginning! Over the winter, my partner and i, and her parents did a 10-week course with the DBKA into basic beekeeping. Course completed, we were very keen to get our bees, so went to a very reputable local keeper who sold us two nucs in may-june this year.

We are using Modified Dadant hives, as our nucs were a buckfast strain, and seem very prolific. Our hive was situated in the fenced corner of a quiet field, and the parents hive went into their garden.

In late july we had a bit of a shock to discover two queen cells in our hive. We were too busy that weekend to sort it, so we removed them, and a week later, well prepared for more, we found 7!!

We artificially swarmed into a 3rd hive, which i built, and left them to it. Then came a 3-4 week period of us not really being sure what was going on - neither hive had a visible queen, no new eggs, and no attempt to re-queen, but a fair amount of activity in both hives. Eventually, after talking to our nuc supplier, we checked them again at the end of week 4, to find laying queens in both hives, however, our original marked queen was nowhere to be seen...


Since then things have settled a bit. The original hive is very strong, not enough stores to actually take honey (The parents hive yielded a super worth of lovely honey), and the swarmed one quietened down a lot, then built back up again, and i think is now at a stable level.

The problems came a fortnight ago when i did the weekly check on my own - Very nice day, fairly bright sunshine. The swarmed hive is very gentle, quiet, and allowed me to rummage through quite happily with no real response. I then checked the strong hive, smoker went out, and i was practically pelted with very angry bees. Long story short, completed the check quickly, fed them syrup (Not many stores now), and packed up. Got stung 3-times on the forehead through my veil, and once on the finger, through a rubber glove. And had to walk to the other side of a 4-acre square field before i could de-suit due to a group of followers...

Yesterday morning my partner and i went down again, armed with a properly lit smoker this time, and the results were much the same. Once again glorious bright sunshine. The quiet hive is at a fair strength, and lovely to work with. The strong hive was much more subdued with a fair amount of smoker use, and they now have loads of stores (Both hives are back down to brood-box only now as the supers were empty and un-used). Unfortunately i was a little too hasty removing my suit (I figured 100yds line-of-sight would be enough - fool me), and got hit by two or three very angry little beggars, which resulted in two nasty stings beside my left eye. We fled to the car, and went home.

This morning i am regretting it. Having slept on one side, half my face swelled up like a puffball, and only after a trip to the quack, and a dose of piriton has it abated much. He says i am developing a minor alergic reaction, and should avoid getting stung!lol!


So, what do we think here? Is it down to breeding, or the new queen thats made this hive irritable? We tend to be very delicate with removing the frames/etc, and we avoid knocking or brushing the bees around as well. Or, is it likely to be the fact we've fed them, or its hot, too sunny, and we're sweaty in our suits?

Any advice is welcomed - we feel its probably running down time of year now anyway, so wont be making any serious changes now, but we'd certainly like to know what we need to do for the new year, etc...

Thanks

ToGGoT

 

[Skyhook]

Sounds very much like the new queen produces bad-tempered bees. However, worth noting that they were at their worst when stores were low, which is what you would expect. As you say, do nothing now in haste; but if, in the spring, that hive is still much worst than the other, that may be the time to think of re-queening.

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

My own (admittedly limited) experience is that at this time of year, when preserving stores for the winter is crucial and they are beginning to shift into winter mode (or not??!!), is a time when irritable bee syndrome becomes more pronounced.

 

[Cazza]

If you pop a cap or wide brimmed hat under your veil, you should avoid stings to your face throught the veil.

Cazza

 

[Swarm]

I think you will end up re-queening. Following 100yds? No thanks.

 

[VEG]

firstly there is no way you should be stung on the forehead with a suit on. If the veil is getting close to your face wear a baseball cap this keeps it off your face. If the hive swarmed then after you looked through it it is best to leave them alone for 3/4 weeks for the new queen to come into lay.
Oh welcome to the mad house by the way

 

[kighill]

Are you currently treating for varroa? This can make the bees irritable.
Other than time of year, which can cause the bees a little upset, particularly if they have been bothered by wasps etc prior to your visit.
It does point to your new queen being mated to very protective bees.

Simple solution is to remove the queen from protective colony and unite with the nicer bees.

Lots of advice available on here for uniting.

Ps welcome to the forum.

 

[user 6228]

you said you built the hive? what size is the entrance?

 

[Midland Beek]

Are your bees starving? Smoke has no effect if they are ... they have no food to consume on the detection of smoke.

 

[bobster]

From the bee's perspective they are getting ready for winter. So their number 1 priority is honey stores. They've worked bl**dy hard for it, so they're going to defend it. It's life or death as far as they are concerned.

So are there any predators bothering them? Can you stay a while and observe what is going on? Are there wasps attacking the hive, is there any evidence of woodpecker damage etc? If so you can usually do something about it to help them.

I was observing my hive(s) the other day and there is a battle royal going on. They have guards flying around the hive challenging anything that approaches. There are wasps trying to get in but fortunately the bees seem to be doing their job and keeping them out. I've placed out wasp traps to try and help.

When I approach, the bees challenge me, a lot! Then when I make a clumsy mistake and drop or bash something they don't just hiss, they now leap onto my glove and try and sting me. And this is a colony I could easily inspect a few weeks ago without any gloves (and yes the bees are from the same queen).

So my take is yes there are bad tempered bees. But in their position I'd be just as p*ssed if someone bashed my door in and rifled through my larder.

So I agree with Skyhook and thedeaddiplomat. Do nothing in haste, it'll get cool soon, so leave them alone (with plenty of stores) and see how they come through next year.

Good Luck

Bobster

 

[CB008]

From the bee's perspective they are getting ready for winter. So their number 1 priority is honey stores. They've worked bl**dy hard for it, so they're going to defend it. It's life or death as far as they are concerned.

So are there any predators bothering them? Can you stay a while and observe what is going on? Are there wasps attacking the hive, is there any evidence of woodpecker damage etc? If so you can usually do something about it to help them.

I was observing my hive(s) the other day and there is a battle royal going on. They have guards flying around the hive challenging anything that approaches. There are wasps trying to get in but fortunately the bees seem to be doing their job and keeping them out. I've placed out wasp traps to try and help.

When I approach, the bees challenge me, a lot! Then when I make a clumsy mistake and drop or bash something they don't just hiss, they now leap onto my glove and try and sting me. And this is a colony I could easily inspect a few weeks ago without any gloves (and yes the bees are from the same queen).

So my take is yes there are bad tempered bees. But in their position I'd be just as p*ssed if someone bashed my door in and rifled through my larder.

So I agree with Skyhook and thedeaddiplomat. Do nothing in haste, it'll get cool soon, so leave them alone (with plenty of stores) and see how they come through next year.

Good Luck

Bobster

My experience is very similar. My 4 hives have all been incredibly mild mannered from the get go until last weekend when they did not like being interfered with. I susupect they are simply proptecting their winter stores

 

[jdee]

Managed to get hold of a split from a friend this year and bees were very mild mannered. Managed to get a super of honey off of them in August and then treated with Bayvarol in September. At this point they turned into the most angry bees i have come across. Normally only wear surgical gloves but for whatever reason I put on leather gauntlets and still got two stings through them - literally flying at me always so i just closed up and walked away from them - didnt even get the queen excluder off of them.

Managed to get into the hive yesterday (last decent day of the year I reckon) this time with gauntlets and motorbike gloves on - three layers of clothing and they were still going at me like I was the devil in disguise. By now i thought they were queenless so no one was more surprised then me to discover loads of eggs and brood - I was thinking i was going to have to unite them for the winter. Loads of bees and loads of brood - didnt see the queen but she is obviously there. Hopefully they will settle down and be nice again come spring - other then feeding them i dont intend going anywhere near them until then.

Another thought was maybe there are so many bees there that they want to swarm but cant because of the time of year?

Regards

JD

 

[Swarm]

I suspect it's the treatment.

 

[Andy Duff]

Par for the course at this time of the year. Had a quick inspection of our hives last week; strongest colony's bees gave me a bit of a buzzing.
middle colony's bees, angry buzzing and a bit of pinging.
Weakest colony's bees, a dozen went straight for my veil.

At this time of year I always wear my heavy duty beek jacket/veil under that a hoodie with the hood up, with a baseball cap underneath that and my thicker gloves. In Summer just a veil and no gloves is enough for all but major hive manoeuvres. Never been stung (YET)

 

[Nic Rhodes]

Never had this with Bayvarol but Thymol, yes common now. We urgently need a treatment that does not upset the bees so much at this vital time of year. Bee numbers are down here, a serious concern.

 

[Bob Bee]

If you pop a cap or wide brimmed hat under your veil, you should avoid stings to your face throught the veil.

Cazza

I'd definitely go for a hat, especially if your doing a lot of manipulation, baseball caps unless there a very tight fit have a tendency to slip out of position and even slide over your face and eyes, just at the wrong time.