Irresponsible Beekeeping?

[gmonag]

Just do him a favour - sterilise his hive as it has no bees

That would be criminal damage

 

[Wilco]

Yes I read his "rant". I'm asking you to explain yours. What inaccuracies? What issues doesn't he understand?

Not really bothered but reading it the following stood out:
Conflates supercedure and swarming
Hazy at best on heterosis
Argument falls down a bit given there are wild/feral populations breeding naturally, many sold queens are open mated and not all commercial keepers buy in stock.

 

[Mint Bee]

Thanks Wilco,
Each to their own, but his methods don't fit my style of beekeeping in my area

However, back to the OP, it looks very much like the zest hive website encourages open feeding, so if the owner of the hive detailed has picked up beekeeping skills from this, then its no wonder there is comb left out

 

[Swarm]

Thanks Wilco,
Each to their own, but his methods don't fit my style of beekeeping in my area

However, back to the OP, it looks very much like the zest hive website encourages open feeding, so if the owner of the hive detailed has picked up beekeeping skills from this, then its no wonder there is comb left out

Which is why I asked if Poot knew this person and would it be worth having a word. Some people are approachable, others go straight into aggressive mode when anything they do or say is challenged.
Let's say this is a relatively knew beekeeper who may be unaware of their sloppy apiary hygiene and the potential it has for spreading disease, a quiet word pointing them in the right direction may work wonders.
This person may well appreciate the help and advice from an experienced beekeeper.

It's a glass half full day today so I'm hoping this is the case.

 

[user 20297]

Which is why I asked if Poot knew this person and would it be worth having a word. Some people are approachable, others go straight into aggressive mode when anything they do or say is challenged.
Let's say this is a relatively knew beekeeper who may be unaware of their sloppy apiary hygiene and the potential it has for spreading disease, a quiet word pointing them in the right direction may work wonders.
This person may well appreciate the help and advice from an experienced beekeeper.

It's a glass half full day today so I'm hoping this is the case.

How true!!!!!

 

[The Poot]

Which is why I asked if Poot knew this person and would it be worth having a word. Some people are approachable, others go straight into aggressive mode when anything they do or say is challenged.
Let's say this is a relatively knew beekeeper who may be unaware of their sloppy apiary hygiene and the potential it has for spreading disease, a quiet word pointing them in the right direction may work wonders.
This person may well appreciate the help and advice from an experienced beekeeper.

It's a glass half full day today so I'm hoping this is the case.

Continuing on a glass half full......
I mentioned there had been flood damage, so this could be a one off.
Having said that, last year I had a colony I could just not get free of varroa, taking around eight vapes. My feeling is that the Zest way is very hands off beekeeping - “let alone” - and I think these colonies (there are two) could pose an ongoing issue if the Zest “science” is flawed.
The keeper, who I have met, seems an amiable enough chap, so I need to get together with him to have a natter.
Maybe I’ll arrange to have a beer with him, then it could be glass full

 

[pargyle]

However, back to the OP, it looks very much like the zest hive website encourages open feeding, s

I don't think that's true ... I've met Bill Summers on a number of occasions - his Zest hive is a different take on my heavily insulated Long deep hive and I share a lot in common with his thoughts ... I don't agree with everything he says but the Zest hive is something that interests me and one day, with a bit more space, I'm going to get around to building a hive out of the same insulation blocks that are used in the Zest hive.

However, I've NEVER heard Bill recommend open feeding - indeed, perhaps you can point me to where on his website he recommends it ? As far as I am aware, when bees in a Zest hive need feeding he either puts a bucket of syrup inside the hive where the colony can get at it (nothing much wrong with that unless robbing starts) or he uses frame feeder with fondant.

I think that he does talk about leave alone beekeeping and I've said to him, in the past, that it's not a term he should use lightly - but he really does not use the term in the sense that most beekeepers would use it .. I think light touch beekeeping would be a better word for his style of keeping bees.

I must admit that my experience with a long hive that is heavily insulated does reflect a lot of what Bill states about the Zest hive ... He claims to have no varroa but I have doubts about that - low varroa levels were certainly (and continue to be) my experience with highly insulated hives.

There are always going to be beekeepers who break some of the golden rules and as far as I'm concerned open feeding is a definite No No ... but you can see open feeding being practiced on countless you tube videos (most of them in the USA) so I would suggest that it's very easy for an inexperienced beekeeper to pick up what is a fairly dangerous practice if you want to keep your bees healthy.

You may not like the Zest hive or Bill's way of promoting it but let's not tar him with a brush that he doesn't deserve ... or prove me wrong and show me where he suggests open feeding is a method of feeding bees ?

 

[Mint Bee]

post 16. Picture of remote feeding taken directly from the zest hive website

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

open feeding AND old brood comb to rob out

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

prove me wrong and show me where he suggests open feeding is a method of feeding bees ?

Chapter five B - Yearly Zest management Point 2

provide a remote feeder so that the bees can fly and collect it when the weather is good enough, but when there is no nectar to gather. Last year’s leftover wax, pollen and honey, kept in a sealed container over winter, is perfect.

 

[gmonag]

Thanks Wilco,
Each to their own, but his methods don't fit my style of beekeeping in my area

However, back to the OP, it looks very much like the zest hive website encourages open feeding, so if the owner of the hive detailed has picked up beekeeping skills from this, then its no wonder there is comb left out

That's a shame, I was hoping you could educate me, but clearly not.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's a shame, I was hoping you could educate me, but clearly not.

Never mind. There’s always Google

 

[pargyle]

post 16. Picture of remote feeding taken directly from the zest hive website

Chapter five B - Yearly Zest management Point 2

Right - found it - right at the end of the chapter -- I stand corrected - in fairness whenever I've spoken to Bill he's never mentioned open feeding - it's always been via a feeder inside the hive so I suspect it's an idea he's either thought up relatively recently or like some other stupid idiots picked it up from youtube.

Daft idea and next time I come across him I'll take it up with him ... for all the reasons well established on here - one of the worst ideas !

I still like the idea of a Zest hive though ...

 

[Murox]

I suppose we are all entitled to the occasional aberration.

 

[Mint Bee]

Phil, have you considered the carbon footprint of using all that concrete......?

 

[pargyle]

Phil, have you considered the carbon footprint of using all that concrete......?

Actually, they are not traditional concrete blocks they use - they are Durox Aircrete - it's blown concrete and they are mostly air, very lightweight .. if you look at the Tarmac (who make them) website - they are considered to be a pretty environmentally sustainable option when it comes to building with them. In terms of durability - they will last forever. IS anything these days totally environmentally friendly? My Long hive was nearly all reclaimed timber and is still going strong 12 years on ... but even that, when you take into account the fastenings, electricity and lighting during the build etc. fails. The nice thing about these blocks is they just get delivered and you build your hive.

Me ? I would make it to take 14 x 12 frames the same as my LDH and Paynes polys and I'd use Celotex as a roof material - perhaps clad in timber ... it's an interesting concept but need a bit more space tha I don't currently have ...

 

[North End Bees]

I suspect it's an idea he's either thought up relatively recently or like some other stupid idiots picked it up from youtube.

Are you calling him a stupid *****??

 

[pargyle]

Are you calling him a stupid *****??

If (and as I have said - if you read all my posts - Bill has never said to me he open feeds) he is open feeding his bees then YES ...he is a stupid ***** ... and that goes for anyone else who thinks open feeding bees is a good idea.

 

[user 20297]

If (and as I have said - if you read all my posts - Bill has never said to me he open feeds) he is open feeding his bees then YES ...he is a stupid ***** ... and that goes for anyone else who thinks open feeding bees is a good idea.

Open feeding does sound like a stupid idea and in addition to the hygiene reasons, I can't think of any good reason for feeding all of the sweet-toothed insects in the neighbourhood rather than targeting your own bees and of them, the ones who need it most. But given that bees are such opportunists with an amazing ability to find any scrap of sugary substance left insecurely, including within badly defended hives, I wonder how significant it is that the odd person defies the consensus opinion on open feeding?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

given that bees are such opportunists with an amazing ability to find any scrap of sugary substance left insecurely, including within badly defended hives, I wonder how significant it is that the odd person defies the consensus opinion on open feeding?

That's the nub isn't it, let's keep it to the occasional odd beekeeper, the only way to do that is for us to educate and encourage good sense beekeeping.
And when someone recommends bad practice (or worse, as in this case, publishes it in his book) it needs calling out.