insulating hives

[Bitbybit]

I was wondering about the arguments for and against insulating hives. I am leaning towards making the insulated cover as designed by Derekm but I have also read that cold weather in winter is good for bees as it kills some pathogens and enforces a period of rest for the queen. My other worry is condensation inside the hive as moisture won't be able to escape.

 

[Walrus]

I insulate the top of my cedar hives so that any condensation will be on the walls not the ceiling. They seem to be fine with about 2" of Kingspan on top (above crown board) all year round.

Many seem to think poly hives are better so I'm testing one out this year. Poly nucs seem to over winter really well.

 

[Davelin]

Insulation in roof is all I do; not lost any over last two winters

 

[user 6228]

I was wondering about the arguments for and against insulating hives. I am leaning towards making the insulated cover as designed by Derekm but I have also read that cold weather in winter is good for bees as it kills some pathogens and enforces a period of rest for the queen. My other worry is condensation inside the hive as moisture won't be able to escape.

The condensation if any will be outside the hive but inside the PIR cover . The cover will make it warmer than a poly hive but not warmer than a tree nest your bees natural habitat.

 

[Finman]

.
In Finland only insulated hives will survive properly. I have used 3 cm wooden boxes and they consume 50% more winter food than polyhives.

It means that bees live with winter sugar 8 months, bigger consumption 50% is enough only to March. The biggest consumption is in spring when brooding starts. Insulated hives have faster build up and they are in foraging condition earlier than cold hives. The yield is much more bigger in warm hives like poly.

Dead or alive after winter, it is not big issue at all. Biggest thing is spring build up.

Condensation is an easy piece of cake.

Winter feeding, the most simple thing.


In our climate above all is the feature that bees do not make brood during winter. No colony will survive then. That is why we need local bee stock.
Bees stay inside totally between Ocktober and middle of March.

Big clusters are easy to over winter and they start fine in spring.
.

Bees have 8 winter rest months. Only 3 months are snow months. Others are like you have, prolonged autumn.

.
.

 

[Little John]

[...] I have also read that cold weather in winter is good for bees as it kills some pathogens ...

And it also kills a few bees too - but as someone on here pointed out earlier in the year, that's not an entirely bad thing as it's nature's way of culling the weak. As I'd just lost a few colonies myself, the timing of that comment wasn't too great - but yes, with hindsight I agree with him (at least I think it was a 'him') ...

Molly-coddling bees is asking for trouble - long-term - for it will only serve to support weak genetic lines, with their propensity for disease.

LJ

 

[richardbees]

funny time for this discussion ------ I'm thinking added top ventilation

 

[hiveabee]

Insulation in roof is all I do; not lost any over last two winters

I insulate in the roof space in january after O acic treatment, with an empty super to allow this. I use cushion filler. works well and holds any condensation

 

[hiveabee]

Insulation in roof is all I do; not lost any over last two winters

I insulate in the roof space in january after O acic treatment, with an empty super to allow this. I use cushion filler. works well and holds any condensation

 

[user 6228]

And it also kills a few bees too - but as someone on here pointed out earlier in the year, that's not an entirely bad thing as it's nature's way of culling the weak. As I'd just lost a few colonies myself, the timing of that comment wasn't too great - but yes, with hindsight I agree with him (at least I think it was a 'him') ...

Molly-coddling bees is asking for trouble - long-term - for it will only serve to support weak genetic lines, with their propensity for disease.

LJ

Is that why you are deforesting the planet then? Cos trees Molly coddle bees? Apis mellifera mellifera evolved Ito survive all the way upto the conifer line but not in hives but in tree nests 4 times warmer than your wooden boxes.
Keeping an animal under
Considerable extra stress compared to its natural habitat to suit your own convienence is not the done thing. If you want to select traits at least do it in a non cruel fashion

 

[user 6228]

dup due to site going offline

 

[user 6228]

dup due to site going offline

 

[Little John]

Is that why you are deforesting the planet then? Cos trees Molly coddle bees? Apis mellifera mellifera evolved Ito survive all the way upto the conifer line but not in hives but in tree nests 4 times warmer than your wooden boxes.
Keeping an animal under
Considerable extra stress compared to its natural habitat to suit your own convienence is not the done thing. If you want to select traits at least do it in a non cruel fashion

Isn't it a buqqer when someone holds a different viewpoint to one's-self ?

LJ

 

[Hivemaker.]

Molly-coddling bees is asking for trouble - long-term - for it will only serve to support weak genetic lines, with their propensity for disease.

I agree, i think i may try out some of the five frame correx nuc boxes this winter.

 

[Paulf]

How can trying to simulate what happens in the wild be considered Molly-coddling ?

 

[Little John]

How can trying to simulate what happens in the wild be considered Molly-coddling ?

Because what Derekm is over-looking, with his mythical warm and cosy tree nest - is how the cavity has been formed in the first place.

The bark will have been damaged at some point in the tree's history, typically by a branch being broken-off (forming a 'rain-catcher), thereby allowing rain to penetrate the wood. The rotting process into the trunk would then have commenced, with the majority of the subsequent rot occurring at the upper surface (by virtue of aerobic bacteria) of the cavity thus formed, with much less rot occurring at it's base due to the water-saturation there - which of course is why the majority of tree cavities are found to have entrances towards their bottoms.

After a considerable number of other occupants, the progressive rotting of the cavity would eventually result in a size suitable for occupation by bees. And so the bees duly move in. But does the rotting process then magically stop ? Of course not.

So the reality is that those bees will be living in a cavity which will be cold, damp and even wet during winter, and only reasonably dry during the summer. But whenever it rains, the cavity will become wet again - for that is precisely why the rot has been taking place, and will be continuing to do so !


By making hives from Kingspan, a completely artifical environment is being created which mirrors those environmental conditions which are valued by human beings. It may be a very clever thing to be doing, but perhaps not particularly wise ?

LJ

 

[Outlander]

Now I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this one but if I was to give some top ventilation such as unblocking the holes on the CB or maybe matchsticks at the corners of the CB, would this help with the evaporation of the honey.

 

[pargyle]

Now I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this one but if I was to give some top ventilation such as unblocking the holes on the CB or maybe matchsticks at the corners of the CB, would this help with the evaporation of the honey.

Oh no not matchsticks ... anything but matchsticks ... too late, the words out !!

 

[MuswellMetro]

Because what Derekm is over-looking, with his mythical warm and cosy tree nest - is how the cavity has been formed in the first place.

The bark will have been damaged at some point in the tree's history, typically by a branch being broken-off (forming a 'rain-catcher), thereby allowing rain to penetrate the wood. The rotting process into the trunk would then have commenced, with the majority of the subsequent rot occurring at the upper surface (by virtue of aerobic bacteria) of the cavity thus formed, with much less rot occurring at it's base due to the water-saturation there - which of course is why the majority of tree cavities are found to have entrances towards their bottoms.

After a considerable number of other occupants, the progressive rotting of the cavity would eventually result in a size suitable for occupation by bees. And so the bees duly move in. But does the rotting process then magically stop ? Of course not.

So the reality is that those bees will be living in a cavity which will be cold, damp and even wet during winter, and only reasonably dry during the summer. But whenever it rains, the cavity will become wet again - for that is precisely why the rot has been taking place, and will be continuing to do so !


LJ

well first it is news to me that bacteria rots trees to create cavities, where is that sourced from?. i would like to read the article

the normal rotting process in tree is shirley cause by a fungus that work in a way that is similar to the common Dry rot fungus , yes they need a water source but decay the wood away from that source just as dry rot decays wood within a building 6ft away from water, they progress away from the waters source breaking down the celluose, the friuting bodies being not at the eating end but near the water source

Tree cavities i have seen in cut outs are very dry with the fungus not feeding of the areas near the Outer Bark of the tree due to toxin used by the tree as defence (oak etc),

Yes agree It can be wet in the base of the hole but that iIMHO is due to the that water tends to go to the lowest point, and ingress via the entrance which tends to be branch rot hole and...but i have never seen one tree cavity occupied by bees with Wedmores top ventilation

 

[Finman]

How can trying to simulate what happens in the wild be considered Molly-coddling ?

it is not needed, not at all. Stupid playing. Surely there are better to reseach than tree holes.
If some reseach there bees at all. In my country there is no bee reseaching.

Guys are ready to run blood if we talk about mesh floor or solid floor, but no one researches.

.

.