insulating hives

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Because what Derekm is over-looking, with his mythical warm and co
By making hives from Kingspan, a completely artifical environment is being created which mirrors those environmental conditions which are valued by human beings. It may be a very clever thing to be doing, but perhaps not particularly wise ?

LJ

Kingspan as hive material in very unpractical and very expencive.

Couple weeks ago I bought new medium polyboxes 10 euros a piece.
Their insulation is good enough to bring colonies over winter with one feeding= 8 months.

Dekemns stories about winter food consumptiona are not true at all. Colonies cannot live with couple of sugar kilos several months like he says.

Those 2 hive owners who says " I do not use insulation" tells only that they not understand what they are talking.
 
Molly-coddling bees is asking for trouble - long-term - for it will only serve to support weak genetic lines, with their propensity for disease.

True if you are breeding thousands of queens in a decade long breeding program aimed at resistance to cold. And then imparting the results of your breeding to the world.

Otherwise fallacious.


I insulate all my TBH sides and roof.. as Derek will point out, the area for heat loss (eg roof) is greater than a conventional hive. Even so .. in an exposed site - my spring build ups can be slow depending on the spring. This year I was still feeding a couple of weak colonies into July.
 
Kingspan as hive material in very unpractical and very expencive.

Couple weeks ago I bought new medium polyboxes 10 euros a piece.
Their insulation is good enough to bring colonies over winter with one feeding= 8 months.

Dekemns stories about winter food consumptiona are not true at all. Colonies cannot live with couple of sugar kilos several months like he says.

Those 2 hive owners who says " I do not use insulation" tells only that they not understand what they are talking.

... 2 kilos plus the ivy..
if you read this(from Norway not a warm country) then you might guess there was 6kg or less ivy as with PIR you can get to a K value nearer 0.5 (less is better)
IMPORTANCE OF HIVE INSULATION FOR WINTERING, DEVELOPMENT AND HONEY YIELD IN NORWAY
E. VILLUMSTAD .
http://www.apimondiafoundation.org/...&action=download_file&file_id=460&categ_id=80
here you can see 7kg total stores is achievable.
picture.php


Finski/ finman will now reply saying that beekeeping has changed since then.. however, i contend that the laws of physics and the metabolism of bees hasnt changed by a factor of 2 since the 1950s

A kingspan cover costs £15 to make.
 
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it is not needed, not at all. Stupid playing. Surely there are better to reseach than tree holes.
If some reseach there bees at all. In my country there is no bee reseaching.

Guys are ready to run blood if we talk about mesh floor or solid floor, but no one researches.

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finski/finman uses a politician's rhetorical device : to deny that the basis of an argument exists without engaging in the argument


Better research than to understand the natural habitat of an animal? ...
well there goes the whole field of Ecology then ...
 
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......
A kingspan cover costs £15 to make.


hmm

If you were brought up like me in Scotland - and near Aberdeen to boot (Aberdonians make Yorkshire folks look spendthrift) - then you:
1. don't buy new
2. buy used
3. or if you have to buy new, buy someone's surplus .

I bought 6 sheets of perfectly serviceable 35mm thick kingspan -used but excellent - for £11 plus my transport costs of £6.. from fleabay.

Just put a saved search on for within 25 miles and wait. "Collection only" cuts down the potential buyers and the price.
 
Because what Derekm is over-looking, with his mythical warm and cosy tree nest - is how the cavity has been formed in the first place.

The bark will have been damaged at some point in the tree's history, typically by a branch being broken-off (forming a 'rain-catcher), thereby allowing rain to penetrate the wood. The rotting process into the trunk would then have commenced, with the majority of the subsequent rot occurring at the upper surface (by virtue of aerobic bacteria) of the cavity thus formed, with much less rot occurring at it's base due to the water-saturation there - which of course is why the majority of tree cavities are found to have entrances towards their bottoms.

After a considerable number of other occupants, the progressive rotting of the cavity would eventually result in a size suitable for occupation by bees. And so the bees duly move in. But does the rotting process then magically stop ? Of course not.

So the reality is that those bees will be living in a cavity which will be cold, damp and even wet during winter, and only reasonably dry during the summer. But whenever it rains, the cavity will become wet again - for that is precisely why the rot has been taking place, and will be continuing to do so !


By making hives from Kingspan, a completely artifical environment is being created which mirrors those environmental conditions which are valued by human beings. It may be a very clever thing to be doing, but perhaps not particularly wise ?

LJ

Read seeley's 1975 research article on this. The water transport and further decay by the fungus is hampered by the bees breaking up and ejecting all the soft rotted wood. (A behaviour designers of polyhives know all too well). The top of the cavity is then dry . The bees then coat the inside of the cavity with a substance known to have fungicidal and sealing properties- propolis, you may have come across this stuff.
 
Not all trees have the thermal qualities suggested, dependent on the rot, parts of the walls can be paper thin

True, every tree nest is different. I'm basing this on the averages in Seeley's 1975 survey of tree nests. Bees go with the best they can find and have complex behaviour to achieve this. In a discussion(and later in an BBKA article) with Prof Seeley he remarked that no-one has tried to find out if bee's prefer thicker nest walls
 
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Now I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this one but if I was to give some top ventilation such as unblocking the holes on the CB or maybe matchsticks at the corners of the CB, would this help with the evaporation of the honey.


A couple of things to think about

The lower the temperature of the air the greater volume of air is needed to dry something ... obvious... the magnitude of the difference is vast, for every 10C increase the drying capacity doubles...

Regardless of temperature the amount of heat needed to remove the water is very very large. A 10Kg super of honey means 40kg of water has to be removed... the bees have to put in the amount of energy it would take you to boil it away...

Bees have complex behaviours to achieve this incredible feat.. I think its best not to mess around with them, but rather give them an environment that has similar heat and mass flow characteristics to what they evolved to use, but still practical from a beekeeping aspect
 
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... 2 kilos plus the ivy..

IMPORTANCE OF HIVE INSULATION FOR WINTERING, DEVELOPMENT AND HONEY YIELD IN NORWAY
E. VILLUMSTAD .
[

here you can see 7kg total stores is achievable.


Finski/ finman will now reply saying that beekeeping has changed since then.. however,

A kingspan cover costs £15 to make.

Holy man!!!

Are you teaching me and Finnsh beekeepers, what bees consume in winter?

Should I learn, what bees consumed in Norway 60 y ago?

Here I get a commercial Langstroth box with 15 pound
 
Holy man!!!

Are you teaching me and Finnsh beekeepers, what bees consume in winter?

Should I learn, what bees consumed in Norway 60 y ago?

Here I get a commercial Langstroth box with 15 pound

yes, from the thermal properties of the finnish hives i have tested, the finns have something to learn.
yes, because you can't match their efficiency, even though you are using modern materials. You need to find out what you are doing wrong. Is it the hole you drill half way up the brood box?
 
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07.02.2013 0,0
20.02.2013 -1,0
03.03.2013 -1,0
11.03.2013 -1,0

19.03.2013 -1,0
24.03.2013 -1,0
03.04.2013 -2,0

18.04.2013 -1,0



A result from winter consumption in Finnish balance hive during 2,5 months


February ............3 kg
March---- ........... 4 kg

April..2 weeks .....1 kg

Data from Kalevi Mettälä Kangasala.-

140px-Kangasala.sijainti.suomi.2011.svg.png
 
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hmm

If you were brought up like me in Scotland - and near Aberdeen to boot (Aberdonians make Yorkshire folks look spendthrift) - then you:
1. don't buy new
2. buy used
3. or if you have to buy new, buy someone's surplus .

I bought 6 sheets of perfectly serviceable 35mm thick kingspan -used but excellent - for £11 plus my transport costs of £6.. from fleabay.

Just put a saved search on for within 25 miles and wait. "Collection only" cuts down the potential buyers and the price.

You and me both ... just lost an auction on ebay for 8 sheets of 50mm 1200 x 450 that went for £15.06 .... I thought £14.56 would get them. Win some, lose some ... there'll be others.
 
yes, from the thermal properties of the finnish hives i have tested, the finns have something to learn.yes, because you can't match their efficiency, even though you are using modern materials. You need to find out what you are doing wrong. Is it the hole you drill half way up the brood box?


Well, with your 15 kg average yield, we have much to learn, how it is possible?

Just now my hives bring that amount in 3 days. You have there 7 months to get yield ( rape to ivy)

We have 2 yield months.

Insulating skills from the country, which does not understand insulation?



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yes, because you can't match their efficiency, even though you are using modern materials. You need to find out what you are doing wrong. Is it the hole you drill half way up the brood box?

But dear derekm. First you should learn the honey bee winter biology.

Hives in autumn consume about 1,5 kg in a month.
In February the colony starts brood rearing even if it is -25C outside.

As you see, consumption rises in spring, because bees have brood there.

Why Mettälä stopped measuring 18.4?

Last spring we had at that time half metre snow but propably the colony made first cleansing flight and dropped some pounds feces on snow.

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About insulating houses

I looked about a year ago that UK has new insulation values for houses.

They are the same what we abandoned at same time because we got new values.

Our country is colder than yours, but what I say, nothing to learn from there in insulation issues. Tell to derekm if yoiu see him.

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Well, with your 15 kg average yield, we have much to learn, how it is possible?

Just now my hives bring that amount in 3 days. You have there 7 months to get yield ( rape to ivy)

We have 2 yield months.

Insulating skills from the country, which does not understand insulation?



.

the honey yield ploy and the ethnic slur ploy
 
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