Insulate or not?

[Rhyolite]

I have seen more content online thay suggests to insulate a hive for winter. Yet there are a few people out there that remove the inspection board and will have some breathable cloth below the crown board or a moisture board slightly raised above.

Have people tried both methods or what do you all think?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have seen more content online thay suggests to insulate a hive for winter. Yet there are a few people out there that remove the inspection board and will have some breathable cloth below the crown board or a moisture board slightly raised above.

Have people tried both methods or what do you all think?

If you insulate the top with a piece of PIR the crownboard is warmer than the sides so that any moisture collects on the colder sides where the bees can use it. There’s no earthly reason to let moisture, which takes warm air with it, out the top.
(In my opinion)

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have mostly poly hives and I enjoy having the odd peek through the crownboard to see the bees still active in winter. Stan likes wooden hives so we have a couple. They get jackets in winter though that’s probably over kill.

 

[Madge]

I have seen more content online ... will have some breathable cloth below the crown board ...

Below the crown board? I've never seen that. What is the thinking for doing that? A sponge so that bees have water above their heads?

 

[Murox]

Below the crown board? I've never seen that. What is the thinking for doing that? A sponge so that bees have water above their heads?

Maybe it's a 'nod' to hessian and a Warre quilt?

 

[Madge]

Maybe it's a 'nod' to hessian and a Warre quilt?

Yes, but that's above the crown board - not below.
PS: Or Warré hives don't have crown boards, do they? Just the cloth and shavings on top. Ok.

 

[Rhyolite]

If you insulate the top with a piece of PIR the crownboard is warmer than the sides so that any moisture collects on the colder sides where the bees can use it. There’s no earthly reason to let moisture, which takes warm air with it, out the top.
(In my opinion)

Would 9mm be OK do you think?

 

[Rhyolite]

Below the crown board? I've never seen that. What is the thinking for doing that? A sponge so that bees have water above their heads?

If you skip to 10 minutes you'll see the method.
Fully ventilated for winter, no insulation.

 

[Speybee]

I insulate by laying a sheet of the jumbo bubble wrap across the top of the crown board.
If the temperature is forecast to be in the minus centigrade ( which it often is here) I will put in the ply inspection tray under the varroa mesh floor leaving a couple inch gap.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have seen more content online thay suggests to insulate a hive for winter.

I don't - I have a 50mm PIR insulation sheet permanently fixed inside my roofs all year round anyone who 'fully ventilates' their hives and has vents in their roof (unless blocked off) is a fool.

 

[Niv]

I don't - I have a 50mm PIR insulation sheet permanently fixed inside my roofs all year round anyone who 'fully ventilates' their hives and has vents in their roof (unless blocked off) is a fool.

Don't mince your words, say what you mean ;P

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'll try not to hold back in future, but in some instances, the only way to fix something is with a very large hammer

 

[drdrday]

Don't mince your words, say what you mean ;P

JBM has probably had to say 'don't ventilate!' on this forum more times than you've had hot dinners. Can't blame him for wanting to get to the point in as few words as possible

 

[Madge]

If you skip to 10 minutes you'll see the method.
Fully ventilated for winter, no insulation.

Oh, I see. Thank you for that.

Yes, his idea is specifically to create a draft and cool the colony down over winter to stop the queen from laying because, he says, that could have a bad effect on the colony. I suppose he means the risk of early spring death when the the colony has increased in size, with not enough food or new helpers to care for the larvae and brood. Then, in spring, he adds insulation again to help with rearing summer bees.

I think his method needs careful autumn feeding (as he explained) - and that's not something I can do. I prefer insulation - top insulation - all year round.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Would 9mm be OK do you think?

50mm that’s what I use. Just like the silver stuff the cosies are made of

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, his idea is specifically to create a draft and cool the colony down over winter to stop the queen from laying because, he says, that could have a bad effect on the colony. I suppose he means the risk of early spring death when the the colony has increased in size, with not enough food or new helpers to care for the larvae and brood.

But isn’t that what we Beekeepers do ? Look after the colonies needs?
I’m amazed that anybody would do this.
As an aside the colonies in my poly hives are active all winter. I look in through the crownboard occasionally and see bees walking about on the top bars unless it’s really cold. I regularly take out a frame of food to let the queen have more room to lay

 

[Speybee]

But isn’t that what we Beekeepers do ? Look after the colonies needs?
I’m amazed that anybody would do this.
As an aside the colonies in my poly hives are active all winter. I look in through the crownboard occasionally and see bees walking about on the top bars unless it’s really cold. I regularly take out a frame of food to let the queen have more room to lay

I think perhaps it needs to be taken into account the large differential between temperatures within the U.K.

Those of us in the north particularly on the edges of the Great Glen who suffer prolonged low temperatures in the Minus C range in winter, compared to the relatively balmy south of the U.K ( who can only dream of temperatures greater than 21C in mid summer), perhaps do things a wee bit differently, because we are hammered by the constraints of our climate?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's more down to a load of rubbish published by a bloke called Wedmore in 1947
According to his 'calculations' none of my bees would ever have survived winter since my first colony!!

 

[Madge]

I think perhaps it needs to be taken into account the large differential between temperatures within the U.K.

Those of us in the north ...perhaps do things a wee bit differently, because we are hammered by the constraints of our climate?

As the Irish Bee chap said, the reason for his winter preparation is to prevent the queen from rearing brood mid-winter. It has nothing to do with the outside temperature which, though possibly warmer than north Scotland, doesn't make that much of a difference in winter. But I won't follow his example. I prefer my bees warm and cosy in a stable environment.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But isn’t that what we Beekeepers do ? Look after the colonies needs?
I’m amazed that anybody would do this.

I think it's another case of the bees surviving despite his manipulations rather than because of