input required! Ive just split the hive!

[Clemcook]

Hi all,

I have another scenario which would be great to get some input on please, just some guidance from you more experienced beeks -be nice!

So I have been away and assumed the bees had plenty of space, but my queen is laying very prolifically, to the point where I thought the hive was using the brood box for stores HOWEVER this is not the case, the second brood box all baring about 2-3 frames yesterday was full with capped brood (today a lot has hatched) when I did a top brood box inspection yesterday i noticed some cups - one with larvae in so today this is what I have done:

1.Went through first brood box and found ONE elongated queen cup with larvae in, mix of brood, stored and a couple of empty frames.
2. As I saw the above I thought I cant wait till the new hive arrives to do the AS split so this is what I have done...

3. Put queen and a couple of brood frames, a store frame and 1 or 2 empty frames into a nuc (made sure no cups of QC on any frames)
4. put the nuc in the same place as where the old hive was (waiting for new hive to arrive)
5. left the two queen cells in the original hive along with most of the stores, brood etc with the super box on top also.
6. I plan on moving the original hive to a different location/ change position
7.once new hive arrives I plan on putting the continence of the nuc in the new hive

I was not planning on doing the split today, I thought I had time to get the new hive but after seeing the more developed QC I wasn't sure how much time I had on my hands, also I spotted the queen so wanted to make sure she is safe, also the bees were VERY UNHAPPY with me so i thought best get it done today rather than having to find her again in a few days and having to go through the whole thing.

The new hive should arrive by Tue/Wed latest, will the set up suffice till then?

Thoughts welcome... please

 

[Erichalfbee]

Your nuc is in danger of being overwhelmed by all the returning foragers. Now that you've put the queen in a nuc I would move that away
Look here. http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/swarmconnuc.html

 

[Clemcook]

Your nuc is in danger of being overwhelmed by all the returning foragers. Now that you've put the queen in a nuc I would move that away
Look here. http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/swarmconnuc.html

Thanks I shall read the link, however they are not returning and going into the Queen nuc just the other main hive??

 

[enrico]

That last comment surprises me unless the hives are very close together. Why would the flyers return to another hive? You have basically done things right, queen, new frames old site. Queen Cells old frames on new site. The only question is whether a nuc will hold all the fliers, your queen might leave anyway as they realise a nuc is not big enough.
E

 

[Clemcook]

That last comment surprises me unless the hives are very close together. Why would the flyers return to another hive? You have basically done things right, queen, new frames old site. Queen Cells old frames on new site. The only question is whether a nuc will hold all the fliers, your queen might leave anyway as they realise a nuc is not big enough.
E

Hi,

The Queen is in the the Nuc and I'm planning on putting her into the new hive when it arrives, I have left the queen cells in the old hive as this is what I have read? Are you saying this is the wrong way around? I don't have anything to put in between the the two brood boxes to split the hive that way do didn't know what else to do other than to put her in the nuc till the hive arrives... Any ideas? Thank you

 

[Erichalfbee]

Have you any supers?
For now two supers stacked on top of each other would do as a temporary brood box then you can go ahead and do the Pagden AS you started. Don't forget to thin those QCs down to one open one and go back into BOTH boxes in 5/6 days to remove any emergency cells the brood part might have made and to make sure there are no more swarm cells with your queen. Make sure your brood part has enough stores as they will have few foragers for a while

 

[Clemcook]

Have you any supers?
For now two supers stacked on top of each other would do as a temporary brood box then you can go ahead and do the Pagden AS you started. Don't forget to thin those QCs down to one open one and go back into BOTH boxes in 5/6 days to remove any emergency cells the brood part might have made and to make sure there are no more swarm cells with your queen. Make sure your brood part has enough stores as they will have few foragers for a while

Thanks for the reply, no I literally have two brood high with one super, the QC I saw that alarmed me to split onto the nuc was becoming more elongated so I didn't know if I could wait till Tuesday to do the split. Sorry, by the brood box do you mean the box (nuc box) where my queen is? If so I made sure there was a full frame of just stores and a frame with mostly stores and some brood and a frame of mostly brood and lastly an empty frame. I've been in twice in the last two days, can I destroy the last queen cup with the larvae in on Wed or Tues when the new stuff arrives and I go in to add missing frames?

Also shall I destroy the play cups also?

Thanks!

 

[Erichalfbee]

The brood side is the one without the queen. The queen right box has the foragers and traditionally the super. Sometimes you have to feed the bees with the developing queen cell.
BUT....hang on, I've just read your post again. Are the bees on double brood?
If they are just split the brood boxes. You can make a floor out of a few bits of wood. You don't need an OMF for a few days
As far as the queen cells go leave an open one and remove the rest. As I said, you need to check again a few days after your split.
Leave the play cups alone, they will only make more

 

[Clemcook]

Hello, okay, thank you, so what sounds best tomorrow shall I leave the Queen in the nuc till the new hive comes which will be Tuesday or Wednesday and move her then or split the brood boxes tomorrow l, move her into one of those and then transfer her into the new Hive when it arrives. Annoying thing is I have a poly and you don't seem to be able to buy the Base only a whole bottom

Thanks again
Clementyne

 

[Clemcook]

Actually I don't have two roofs, am I missing something?!

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you want to put her in a new hive when it arrives then you might as well leave things as they are. I would prefer to split the brood boxes you have, moving all the brood bar one frame into the queen less colony, leaving the queen right one in the original place with the super. That way you keep the foraging force together for any honey. A roof you can cobble together, surely.
As for your question re poly floors. I have poly hives and they all sit on wooden floors, some traditional ones some home made with underfloor entrances.

 

[MartinL]

What's done is done, you'll only p155 them off more if you poke them about again + risk damaging the Queen.

There is a risk that the nuc will swarm though, I'd keep my fingers crossed that the hive doesn't get delayed!

Do you have another nuc box you can put on top to give them the extra volume?

 

[Millet]

You have me more confused than a fellow finnish member does...lol

By the sound of things you have done it back to front.
The Queen should be left in the full size hive on the original spot, the nuc and nurse bees and Queens cells need to be on another spot not too far away, that way the flying bees will go back to the queen leaving the nurse bees to look after the Queen cells and emerging brood, it also sounds like you have jumped in at the deep end with not enough equipment at the ready to pull you safe.
Good luck.

 

[Clemcook]

If you want to put her in a new hive when it arrives then you might as well leave things as they are. I would prefer to split the brood boxes you have, moving all the brood bar one frame into the queen less colony, leaving the queen right one in the original place with the super. That way you keep the foraging force together for any honey. A roof you can cobble together, surely.
As for your question re poly floors. I have poly hives and they all sit on wooden floors, some traditional ones some home made with underfloor entrances.

Yes I could cobble a roof, however if I am putting a floor in made of wood for example I would worry about the temperature of the hive as it has reached nearly 30 degrees here today, I don't want them to cook and don't know where I could get mesh small enough to make a better floor when I get the new hive comes I'm going to put it in its original place, put the queen back in and then move the queenless hive elsewhere....? Thank you

 

[Clemcook]

You have me more confused than a fellow finnish member does...lol

By the sound of things you have done it back to front.
The Queen should be left in the full size hive on the original spot, the nuc and nurse bees and Queens cells need to be on another spot not too far away, that way the flying bees will go back to the queen leaving the nurse bees to look after the Queen cells and emerging brood, it also sounds like you have jumped in at the deep end with not enough equipment at the ready to pull you safe.
Good luck.

Hi Millet,

I watched a you tube video and it said to do it this way as then the Queen will feel as though they have swarmed as they have been moved to a new hive and new location?? I saw the progressed Queen cell today and thought I just can't wait till the new equipment arrives as she maybe gone and they were so upset I couldn't go though another full inspection finding her again just two days later, that would of been three in just 5 days.

Now I am wondering if I should tomorrow, put the queen back in original hive and move queen cell frames into the nuc?? Then move the nuc to the new hive in a new location??

Help lol

 

[MartinL]

. . . . . .
I watched a you tube video and it said to do it this way . . . . . . . .

That's probably where you started to go wrong!

. Now I am wondering if I should tomorrow, . . . . . . . . . .

I think you're best to leave everything as it is now.
You wouldn't want a surgeon to decide to put back a kidney he removed a day previously if the biopsy said it didn't need to be removed would you??

I would worry about the temperature of the hive as it has reached nearly 30 degrees here today,

Think you'll find the temperature inside the hive is a little warmer than that, you should be more concerned about cooling the QCs in the less populated colony!
Mesh floors have not been around that long either.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Millet,

I watched a you tube video and it said to do it this way as then the Queen will feel as though they have swarmed as they have been moved to a new hive and new location?? I saw the progressed Queen cell today and thought I just can't wait till the new equipment arrives as she maybe gone and they were so upset I couldn't go though another full inspection finding her again just two days later, that would of been three in just 5 days.

Now I am wondering if I should tomorrow, put the queen back in original hive and move queen cell frames into the nuc?? Then move the nuc to the new hive in a new location??

Help lol

No. You need to separate the queen from either the flyers or the brood. This does neither. Your initial manoeuvre was ok but you needed either a bigger box for the queen or to split the double brood. You didn't have the kit. Stick a piece of queen excluder over the nuc entrance and get the job finished as soon as the new hive arrives.

 

[Millet]

Hi Millet,

I watched a you tube video and it said to do it this way as then the Queen will feel as though they have swarmed as they have been moved to a new hive and new location?? I saw the progressed Queen cell today and thought I just can't wait till the new equipment arrives as she maybe gone and they were so upset I couldn't go though another full inspection finding her again just two days later, that would of been three in just 5 days.

Now I am wondering if I should tomorrow, put the queen back in original hive and move queen cell frames into the nuc?? Then move the nuc to the new hive in a new location??

Help lol

I wish you where closer as i could maybe help you. is there nobody local to you that can help you as you are in a pickle at the moment .

 

[Millet]

That's probably where you started to go wrong!



I think you're best to leave everything as it is now.
You wouldn't want a surgeon to decide to put back a kidney he removed a day previously if the biopsy said it didn't need to be removed would you??



Think you'll find the temperature inside the hive is a little warmer than that, you should be more concerned about cooling the QCs in the less populated colony!
Mesh floors have not been around that long either.

If i asked for help and got that kind of reply i may have been banned from the forum with my reply to that rubbish , if you have nothing positive to offer just ignore the post/replies.

 

[MartinL]

If i asked for help and got that kind of reply i may have been banned from the forum with my reply to that rubbish , if you have nothing positive to offer just ignore the post/replies.

My advice was to NOT use You-Tube as the fountain of all Knowledge & sit tight till the equipment arrives!

What was wrong with that? ? ?