Incompatible Frame bits

[MJBee]

I plan to change from National double/single brood to 14 x 12. As I had a lot of National top and bottom bars (M**semore) I bought Hoffman 14 x 12 side bars (Th**nes). I found the two are not compatible in that the side bars are thicker than the slot in the top bar and had to be "modified"

Has anyone else had this (minor) problem? Also established 14 x 12ers which top bar do you prefer? DN4 or DN5.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Of no use to you but I recently bought a load of 'first quality' DN5 frames from Th**nes and the bottom bars were far too wide for the side frames.....splitting a couple of the side frames when being gently tapped in before nailing.

I had to modify nearly every one and will only now be buying my DN5 frames from KBS.

Pants.

 

[Tom Bick]

They sell the DN5 as standard with the 14x12 frames from Thorns if you get the frames and not the individual parts.

I will also be partly changing to 14x12 with my planned small expansion this year and for me although I have yet to get personal experience and I must stress this on the 14x12 I would prefer the DN4 top rails I think it is better to see down between the frames not so easy with the DN5.

As for the extra strength bit I am yet to be convinced that the DN5 is any stronger than the DN4 both have the same section of timber for the lugs and the same joint and its this as I see it that gets all the stress when inspecting and I bet its this part that breaks when one fails.

The only advantage I can see to the DN5 thicker mid section is that it will be less likely to twist during inspections with the weight and this may not be an advantage.

I have tested a number of DN5 and DN4 top rails and the difference in twist is minimal. Also if inspecting a heavy frame and as a result putting stress on the lugs and the joint I would sooner have a top rail that had a bit of give to it the extra bit of twist in the DN4 may act as a shock absorber.

I think it is a good thing to glue the sidebars to the top rail as extra security.

I also don’t go with that bit that the DN5 will reduce brace comb either in my view it just gets in the way.

 

[For want of a better word]

Has anyone got 100 top bars for th**nes DN /SN 4
now I AM beginning to panic!!

 

[Headnavigator]

Of no use to you but I recently bought a load of 'first quality' DN5 frames from Th**nes and the bottom bars were far too wide for the side frames.....splitting a couple of the side frames when being gently tapped in before nailing.
Pants.

Ditto from the same source and fortunately I mentioned it to one of the experienced members of my BKA - who suggested I give each bottom bar a firm thwak with a hammer against a hard surface on two opposite sides before sliding into the side bars. Slims the bottom bar down with no loss of 'fit' as it expands once it's in the slot. What would us newbees do without helpful people like that?

 

[Tom Bick]

Has anyone got 100 top bars for th**nes DN /SN 4
now I AM beginning to panic!!

Is this in jest if not why is one worried.

If you have DN5 top rails on your hives and they work for you then that’s good.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Is this in jest if not why is one worried.

If you have DN5 top rails on your hives and they work for you then that’s good.

agree, i am sure the bees will not mind DN4 or DN5 or if they are 14x12s perhaps ED4 or ED5 is more the correct terminology as DN refers to standard brood and ED referes to extra deep or jumbo 14x12

 

[oliver90owner]

I see it that gets all the stress when inspecting and I bet its this part that breaks when one fails.

Tom,

I give all my top bars a 'thump with a small mallet. If they break, they were going to be a pain in use. Th*rnes seconds used to lose about 2% when assembling. It may be more now. I have already lost 2 top bars due to cross-graining or large knots in that area, and I have a lot more to check this year.

I have found that glue is unecessary - never had a new frame fail in that way.

Regards, RAB

 

[Tom Bick]

Sorry Rab don’t deal with 2nds.

Thorns sent me a batch recently by mistake and I was not that impressed especially on the 14x12s. Although I think 2nds are acceptable for the smaller frames.

 

[oliver90owner]

Sorry Rab don’t deal with 2nds.

I can understand that. You are, after all, retailing them if someone buys a hive complete with frames.

Sometimes the cross graining may not be as apparent as with some of the seconds, so may possibly slip through as a 'first' from the supplier - unless they are very rigorous with their inspections.

Certainly some 'thirds' parts coming through as seconds; I have experienced that, so always a possibility that standards are slipping slightly.

Regards, RAB

 

[Adam]

I always thought DN4 didn't adhere to bee space. The thicker ones are preferable I think, on a 14 x 12 due to them being that bit heavier.

Adam