In for a penny...

[Gilberdyke John]

If you start off this year with a nucleus it will be unlikely, but not impossible, for it to try to swarm

There are lies, there are damned lies and then there are statistics!

 

[itma]

As a small help, try the second-hand market - there's a sales section on this forum, and there are other well known sites. There's always stuff people are unloading, some great bargains. It'll cut your costs greatly and enhance the speed with which you can break-even as you develop the business side of honey production.

I'm afraid that I disagree.
The time to buy second-hand kit is ONLY AFTER you can tell the difference between gold and dross.

Most beekeepers are extraordinarily tight-fisted. They will only offer to sell something if they themselves think it utterly useless!
OK, there will be exceptions, but its unrealistic to expect the exceptions to be in the majority.
There are many very subtle things that can render kit incompatible or dysfunctional. The beginner is the least likely to spot why those particular items are being offered for sale!
It should go without saying that the beginner needs to have standard and standardised kit. It makes no sense to have any bits that cannot be used with every other bit of kit. Standardise to simplify.

The beginning beekeeper has plenty of strange things to deal with, usually simultaneously. It helps at the start if he can rely on his equipment NOT giving him additional and particularly unusual puzzles to solve!

 

[Curlyperson]

All of this has been really useful - thanks a lot.

Winter sales? Is there such a thing as last year's colours for hives? But on a prsimonious note, I think it's going to cost me about £700 for two 3 super hives, bees, suits for two, basic tools. Is there any point in waiting til winter, viz are the savings significant?

(Waits for appalled responses...)

 

[JEP]

Savings in the sales can be significant especially if you buy "seconds" (the bees are just as happy in these as in perfect hives and frames). If you are just buying one nuc or package this year then it is unlikely you will need more than one hive with one or two supers in the first year. With regards to spare equipment it is best to go into winter with bees in all of the brood boxes you own, you can always unite the worst ones or sell some in the spring to free up equipment.

 

[Cazza]

All of this has been really useful - thanks a lot.

Winter sales? Is there such a thing as last year's colours for hives? But on a prsimonious note, I think it's going to cost me about £700 for two 3 super hives, bees, suits for two, basic tools. Is there any point in waiting til winter, viz are the savings significant?

(Waits for appalled responses...)

If you buy polyhives, these are cheaper.
It is worth waiting for the sales this year as you are not going to need 6 supers in your first year. Order 2 hives and a couple of supers this year......you may decide you hate the whole thing....
Cazza

 

[Dishmop]

You might also ask around and find a friend who could build some hives.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you start off this year with a nucleus it will be unlikely, but not impossible, for it to try to swarm this summer.

I hate to be pedantic but..................................

 

[Erichalfbee]

I hate to be pedantic but..................................

I share your mirth....I have experience of just such a scenario.
Beginners and Carniolans springs to mind.

 

[itma]

Winter sales? Is there such a thing as last year's colours for hives? But on a prsimonious note, I think it's going to cost me about £700 for two 3 super hives, bees, suits for two, basic tools. Is there any point in waiting til winter, viz are the savings significant?

(Waits for appalled responses...)

I've no idea about French suppliers' Sales.
The UK suppliers generally sell odds and ends and 'seconds' (eg wooden bits with knots in the wood) during their sales. Prices might be as low as half the price of 'prime' quality stock.
However, "low season" sales of prime kit can (if the supplier does it at all) mean 10/15% savings.


However, our members living on the mainland of Europe are continually telling us that equipment prices 'over there' are much lower than we pay in the UK.
Certainly, I'd suggest that you avoid "British Standard" kit. As a beginner, you may well find yourself scrounging a loan of something or other that you need instantly - so its important to be as compatible as possible. The same doesn't necessarily apply to smokers, hive tools and suits (for example) in the same way it does to hives and frames (and thus foundation, and potentially the honey extractor).

Make contact with local beekeepers, whether or not they are natives, and pick up the "local knowledge". Blend in!
Standard advice to UK prospective beginners is to get bees all round you (even get stung) BEFORE you invest in kit. Most beekeepers welcome having an assistant/bee-buddy/trainee to call upon occasionally for an extra pair of hands (and maybe some muscle, or a stronger back, or a talent for carpentry, or whatever.) See if you can be of use!
And most clubs are very welcoming to would-be beginners. Make contact!

 

[REDWOOD]

I'm afraid that I disagree.
The time to buy second-hand kit is ONLY AFTER you can tell the difference between gold and dross.

Most beekeepers are extraordinarily tight-fisted. They will only offer to sell something if they themselves think it utterly useless!
OK, there will be exceptions, but its unrealistic to expect the exceptions to be in the majority.
There are many very subtle things that can render kit incompatible or dysfunctional. The beginner is the least likely to spot why those particular items are being offered for sale!
It should go without saying that the beginner needs to have standard and standardised kit. It makes no sense to have any bits that cannot be used with every other bit of kit. Standardise to simplify.

The beginning beekeeper has plenty of strange things to deal with, usually simultaneously. It helps at the start if he can rely on his equipment NOT giving him additional and particularly unusual puzzles to solve!

Sorry I disagree with this statement, I gave away lots of frames and brood boxes when I moves to 14x12, there are lots of beekeepers willing to help and I'm sure they won't mind giving some equipment to a beekeeper if they don't need it any more. Or is it my weakness for being a Christian

 

[REDWOOD]

I share your mirth....I have experience of just such a scenario.
Beginners and Carniolans springs to mind.

+++++1

 

[Dishmop]

Dont forget the antihistamine tablets and cream...

 

[Davelin]

Some of you people obviously get the wrong sort of nucs!!

 

[Edwardking]

I'm afraid that I disagree.
The time to buy second-hand kit is ONLY AFTER you can tell the difference between gold and dross.

Most beekeepers are extraordinarily tight-fisted. They will only offer to sell something if they themselves think it utterly useless!
OK, there will be exceptions, but its unrealistic to expect the exceptions to be in the majority.
There are many very subtle things that can render kit incompatible or dysfunctional. The beginner is the least likely to spot why those particular items are being offered for sale!
It should go without saying that the beginner needs to have standard and standardised kit. It makes no sense to have any bits that cannot be used with every other bit of kit. Standardise to simplify.


The beginning beekeeper has plenty of strange things to deal with, usually simultaneously. It helps at the start if he can rely on his equipment NOT giving him additional and particularly unusual puzzles to solve!

How insulting to beginners! There are so many books, courses, brochures and websites to help navigation, not to mention the courses, mentors and advice forums like this one that help, support, guide the beginner! Second- hand may well be the only affordable option for some.

 

[itma]

Sorry I disagree with this statement, I gave away lots of frames and brood boxes when I moves to 14x12, there are lots of beekeepers willing to help and I'm sure they won't mind giving some equipment to a beekeeper if they don't need it any more. Or is it my weakness for being a Christian

My statement wasn't about stuff being given away by generous donors.
It was about stuff that some (many?) beekeepers try to sell.
Buying beekeeping equipment secondhand is definitely a matter of Caveat Emptor!

 

[pargyle]

So one hive for the new swarm, and one as a generic spare?

Well ... you CAN do it with ONE hive ... for your first year and if you are LUCKY they won't swarm ...

But ... I can tell you - it's a bit like sitting on a ticking bomb full of 50,000 insects ... and even if you get through the first year without them swarming then you are going to need more kit next year so ....

Take the risk and wait until the Autumn sales when you can pick up things like boxes and frames at a much reduced cost but have a contingency of some sort of brood box or Nucleus available as a 'just in case'.

You just have to live with the One Hive Owner label ... I don't mind the competition ...

 

[BeeJayBee]

Whilst I agree that anybody buying secondhand equipment needs to be careful, I have to admit that >90% of my stuff was bought from other beekeepers.

I cleaned (sterilised) all the boxes before using them with bees, and carefully washed the first jacket I bought before wearing it. My lovely Dadant smoker was second hand, it's far better than a spare (intended to be used only at out-apiary) one I bought from a big name supplier. Almost all my feeders are second hand, they're easy to sterilise.

The colonies I started with were also 'second hand' and came in cedar boxes that were some years old. The bees were first checked by a more experienced beekeeper and later treated for varroa. These wooden boxes were eventually sold at auction - so somebody bought them from me.

Beginners and Carniolans springs to mind

I know carniolans are meant to be gentle, but with their swarmy tendencies I've yet to be convinced they're the best bees for new beekeepers.

 

[itma]

How insulting to beginners! There are so many books, courses, brochures and websites to help navigation, not to mention the courses, mentors and advice forums like this one that help, support, guide the beginner! Second- hand may well be the only affordable option for some.

Edward, as just one examle, I've yet to find a book that mentions top beespace nationals.
But I know a beginner that bought one, secondhand, as a "national".
He already had one national ... and had no idea why he soon had problems with things getting stuck together ...

And in countries (like France where the OP is) where even new kit is less standardised, the idea that a beginner can buy secondhand hive boxes and then be able to simply source even appropriate frames and foundation seems optimistic, extremely so - even before considering the different terms used in different countries and translating jargon.

I'm trying to help beginners, by being realistic, not trying to insult anyone.

 

[Curlyperson]

Can we agree that being tight fisted and being careful with money are not the same thing, possibly an expression in common use or possibly an attempt at self-deprecation? Having been on the forum for a few days I should hate to cause trouble already - I normally wait two or three months before I become disruptive..........

In response to an earlier comment, and based purely on Interweb trawlings, a 2 super 1 brood National hive, complete and flat packed is £265 from Thorne. A 2 super 1 brood flat pack Dadant from a place near to my new home is 155 euros, about £125. French hives are pine, needing treatment, the English hive is cedar which may not. All other equipment seems (on initial inspection) to be of a comparable price.

Peace, man.

 

[Davelin]

..and good vibes


Have you looked at Th*rnes 'Bees on a budget'? Complete hive £150, second quality, but perfectly usable, my bees do not seem to have developed an inferiority complex by being hived in seconds.