Importing package bees by the truckload?

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Agreed they said the farm was 500 acre I think, I was meaning surely the could source 30 hives locally. But this goes back to the initial thread it's about cost and it being cheaper to import bees than rear them in the uk?

HM - Would they have been checked on there way in to the uk then?
 
Agreed they said the farm was 500 acre I think, I was meaning surely the could source 30 hives locally. But this goes back to the initial thread it's about cost and it being cheaper to import bees than rear them in the uk?

HM - Would they have been checked on there way in to the uk then?

Depends which country they are from, we can only import from certain places outside the EU and even within the EU they have to have health certificates, we don't even do that within this country when buying or selling bees.

Where would they reliably source/buy 30 hives of bees locally in April for pollination when many beekeepers had lost most or all of their bees?
 
but why are they dead and need to be replaced?

The weather during 2012 and 2013 in most cases.

To put it into perspective it's worth reading through this thread http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22931 and Murray's own comments.

Here are a couple of quotes:
(6th April 2013)
Incredibly low figures showing up here................have been a major meeting today (and had reports from others over the last couple of weeks) and losses are running at close on 50%, and thats now, before they find all the dud queens etc. Highest is 98%, and no-one with more than a couple of hves reported zero. The carnage extends across beekeepers of all scales, and all husbandry types. Its far worse in the main for those exposed to the east winds along the North Sea coast last summer, who have been reporting undersized clusters since September. No negative correlation with OSR. Some of the heaviest losses are from non OSR apiaries.

88% from a Midlands beekeeper yesterday (and a good one too!).
One outfit reporting 20% losses, then trying to source package bees in such quantity that hey must actually have 50% empty. (Beekeepers reports can be a bit like fishermans tales, and are often designed to impress or horrify other beekeepers. Beware taking it at face value.)
and
19th April 2013
Its not actually the winter that has been responsible, at least not on its own. Its far more the disastrous summer, and in our parts two such summers in a row. We got away with it somewhat last spring due to the lovely early weather and pollen in March, only to immediately slump into an even worse summer in 2012.

The old guys round here (I am only 58 so apparently count as a mere youth!) reckoned 2011 was the worst for 50 years (I think 1985 had slipped their memory) and 2012 was even worse.

Problem in autumn was hive condition. Not enough young bees, especially in the black bees. Those ones had slaughtered their drones in June, some of them in the first week, never raised any more, and even stimulative feeding and pollen in July failed to get the queens going properly again. Of course this did not apply to every hive, but was a strong pattern. They went into winter smallish but in the case of getting a spring like the year before a good many would have survived. Instead we get a winter that goes onand on and on, and only six days ago we had a storm of ice crystals that coated everything in the night.

MOST of the dead have just dwindled away to nothing. A little dead cluster o bigger than the palm of your hand left in the centre, which may or may not contain the queen. Plenty stores, plenty entombed pollen. Many queenless or drone layers. For the first time in many years we have a significant minority showing some signs of staining, but very few of those are severely fouled.

A FEW showing the 'exploded cluster' symptom, where all the bees are dead but at the extremities of the brood box.

Black bee losses by far the highest.
Non black bees the most likely to be showing some staining.

In both cases poly hives far far lower incidence of the symptoms. Attributing this to the boxes being warmer in winter is, I feel, erroneous. They had a better hive environment in late summer and were far more likely to raise another generation of brood prior to going into winter (we could see this difference in Spetember when stripping off the heather honey) and thus simply had enough young bees to withstand the winter. Very few signs of varroa, and few varroa noted on the floors of the dead outs.

So, not the winter that killed them per se, it was lst summer, exacerbated by the length of winter. Until the cluster gets very tiny the cold itself will not kill them. Already have all the northern dead outs fumigated with acetic acid as a precaution againt nosema spread.

Even on this forum this outcome was predicted by me way back at the tail of last summer. The weather alone from late May right through was enough to give rise to this effect. 1985 was much the same, and winter carnage followed, perhaps even worse than this. No need to introduce new variables to explain it. All the old killers that gave rise to losses in the past are still out there. Add varroa pressure on top and we have major issues to face, and a double whammy of horrible summer and bad mating, run on into a very long winter with the worst weather at the most sensitive time, and a poor outcome in inevitable.
 
The weather during 2012 and 2013 in most cases.

And because Beekeepers in colder regions have not invested in modern equipment but instead held to 1940s practices that make their bees vulnerable
It has been clear in the research that bees survive better in habitats that are closer to their natural habitat in terms of heat loss. I.e. Low heat loss and high relative humidity.
I will post the list of papers that support this later today.
ITLD has previously posted the high differential in colony loss that occurred in the winter question between polystyrene hives and wooden hives.

The high colony losses are due to Beekeepers still following advice that is based on the economic and material constraints that were in place immediately after world war 2. Then all materials were difficult to obtain, and insulation materials were heavy and low performance. It was no wonder that single skin thin wood was the only available solution. Given that low performance solution , ventilation became an enviable consequence as it was in human habitation of the same era, which then featured steel window frames, single glazing , rationing of furniture and absence of loft insulation.

Here is some news , furniture rationing has ended and insulation is now light , high performance and cheap.
 
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Black bee losses by far the highest.
Non black bees the most likely to be showing some staining.
ITLD, are you referring to CBPV as black bees? Is the damage it does so serious?
 
To put it into perspective it's worth reading through this thread...and Murray's own comments. Here are a couple of quotes:6th April 2013 and 9th April 2013
Indeed. Was the bee move filmed in 2013 or 2014? About 23:30 min or so in Murray says they have 500 hives to fill from the seasons before. That might be referring to 2013. It's obvious from the film that the trees have more leaves on in Italy, so you get the bees more advanced before the apples blossom here. Whatever the date then, next year we now know there is the risk of SHB in Italy to consider too. Does the commercial advantage override the risk of every beekeeper in Britain having to spend time and money countering a new pest before they would otherwise need to?

One curious date observation, the penguins were moved in early 2014, a search shows the Birmingham aquarium had a competition to name them - http://www.mumsintheknow.co.uk/sutt...life-centre-birmingham-name-its-new-penguins/ Suggestions in by 31 March 2014. The NZ keeper clearly referred to "rocky" and others being one year old. So the claim that they all had no names yet was clearly nonsense - were they all renamed just for extra publicity on arrival?
 
itld said:
...

In both cases poly hives far far lower incidence of the symptoms. Attributing this to the boxes being warmer in winter is, I feel, erroneous. They had a better hive environment in late summer and were far more likely to raise another generation of brood prior to going into winter (we could see this difference in Spetember when stripping off the heather honey) and thus simply had enough young bees to withstand the winter. Very few signs of varroa, and few varroa noted on the floors of the dead outs.

So, not the winter that killed them per se, it was lst summer, exacerbated by the length of winter. Until the cluster gets very tiny the cold itself will not kill them. Already have all the northern dead outs fumigated with acetic acid as a precaution againt nosema spread.

....

ITLD is correct at least from the physics perspective. The largest exchange of energy in Bee colony is in Spring and Summer, not winter.
Thus inefficiencies and losses in these exchanges in Summer will make a bigger impact on the total energy account of the colony.

The consequences of the energy losses then become evident when the colony is under its greatest stress.
 
I don't see the need to import any packages or nucs.
It's just being lazy and taking the easy route.

It's not difficult to build up colony numbers very quickly.
10:1 is easily doable in one season.

Proper management, proper feeding and contingency planning is what's needed.
 
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I don't see the need to import any packages or nucs.
It's just being lazy and taking the easy route.

It's not difficult to build up colony numbers very quickly.
10:1 is easily doable in one season.

Proper management, proper feeding and contingency planning is what's needed.
When you are already hard up against the stops with cash flow , a year without income while you divide your remaining colonies up and wait for them to grow is a tough ask.
 
I don't see the need to import any packages or nucs.
It's just being lazy and taking the easy route.

It's not difficult to build up colony numbers very quickly.
10:1 is easily doable in one season.

Proper management, proper feeding and contingency planning is what's needed.

So you can control the weather?

Please let us know how you do it. Because what you write is feasible in a good season and impossible in a bad one.

No doubt your weather control is a closely guarded secret but if you give us the patent number... :)
 
My comment when I saw the programme, "What are the bees supposed to eat once the apple blossom is over?"

My feeling: Sadness that the bees will starve and the people who took them from the place where there were obviously doing well will do the same to more bees next year.

I like apples but we should not put so many trees together in one place. This does not make sense and yet there are hundreds of apple varieties that are becoming rare because of the decline in small orchards.
 
I like apples but we should not put so many trees together in one place.


I agree with you but people want cheap food and pile 'em high sell 'em cheap works.
It's one of the reasons I retired early and moved here; to be less reliant on food produced by others and for a bit of peace and quiet....keeping bees has scuppered the latter ;)
 
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There is a huge difference between keeping bees as a hobby and doing it for a living.
You can't not pay your bills for a season.
 
My comment when I saw the programme, "What are the bees supposed to eat once the apple blossom is over?"

My feeling: Sadness that the bees will starve and the people who took them from the place where there were obviously doing well will do the same to more bees next year.
.

I think they go to the Scottish heather moors if they belong to Murray Mcgregor. Herefordshire's not a floral desert once the apple has finished anyhow. OSR, field beans, bramble, balsam......
 
I don't see the need to import any packages or nucs.
It's just being lazy and taking the easy route.

It's not difficult to build up colony numbers very quickly.
10:1 is easily doable in one season.

Proper management, proper feeding and contingency planning is what's needed.

Rather a naiive comment from someone (like me) who is just playing at beekeeping. Not so easy when you need the bees now not in a few months time and you are depending on what income you can get from your surviving colonies
My comment when I saw the programme, "What are the bees supposed to eat once the apple blossom is over?"

My feeling: Sadness that the bees will starve

Must have missed that part of the programme, maybe it was slotted in to the little gap between seeing Murray in his pickup and him opening up deadout colonies and talking of the tight 'deadlines' for getting colonies ready for OSR etc. Orchards, then a few miles (not thousands like in the USA) to the OSR then (if they are Murray's) a spin up to the Scottish moors for the heather.
 
And because Beekeepers in colder regions have not invested in modern equipment but instead held to 1940s practices that make their bees vulnerable

Certainly within the Bee Farmers it's the Scottish beekeepers who have been leading the way with adopting (and evangelising) polystyrene hives.
 
I don't see the need to import any packages or nucs.
It's just being lazy and taking the easy route.

It's not difficult to build up colony numbers very quickly.
10:1 is easily doable in one season.

Proper management, proper feeding and contingency planning is what's needed.
Our weather is to some extent predictable - in that it's unpredictable in the long term, otherwise last winter's and the winter before's floods wouldn't have had any significant impact, nor would the long winter and late spring of 2012 - 2013.

If you read back on the forum you'll see threads where beekeepers have had to rescue their hives from floodwater. Some colonies survived near-drowning, some didn't.

Not many beekeepers open up their hives until Spring to check condition and whether colonies have successfully overwintered.

When your livelihood depends on either bees or pollination it isn't unreasonable to buy in to cover losses - and a bad winter affects all beekeepers, not just those whose bees collect nectar and pollinate food crops.

The beekeepers who raise bees to sell colonies also lose stock, which means that UK-raised replacements aren't always available until late in the season. Even this year some hobby beekeepers have had to wait until July or August for delivery of colonies ordered in February, and have decided to feed them almost straight away to help them build up to overwinter. If a commercial outfit had to wait that long for bees they would quickly go bankrupt, and so would the fruit farmers who depend on beekeepers having colonies ready to pollinate flowers when they open. There's no point in turning up with bees after the petals have fallen off!
My comment when I saw the programme, "What are the bees supposed to eat once the apple blossom is over?"

My feeling: Sadness that the bees will starve and the people who took them from the place where there were obviously doing well will do the same to more bees next year.
This is Britain, not America!

Orchards don't cover areas of thousands of square miles, and fruit farmers don't spray beneath the trees to kill everything in sight, which means there's plenty of other forage around. The bees choose what flowers to visit, the beekeepers get colonies to the right size for the right time, and then put them in the right place to get maximum pollination of a given crop.

If there's a late frost all are losers, both beekeepers and farmers end up with nothing because the flowers will have been spoiled. ... Which goes back to the vagaries of the British weather! :D
 

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