imported queens in packages and bigots

[mikethebee]

Hi may I make this quite clear for all you grumbling moaning bigots out their.
I do IMPORT QUEENS to use in my nucs and in my package bees 2,400 has been ordered for 2009 that should make you puke over the dog. See
I have never hid the fact the sooner you realize queen importing ant going away! The better for all of us if you are against it you don?t have to buy.
May I remind some of you moaning posters? I still have your orders placed for imported queens/nucs from me in the past so be carefull?

Now for others beeks interest, 1st/2nd week APRIL weather permitting I will shake from my own yards 200 swarms of bees to make 3.1/2 pound swarms (the same as they do all over the world) and I will add the best imported ?26.50each, queen laying machine on this planet.
400 Specially made swarm boxes have been made to hold the 1ltr syrup feeder and the 3.1/2 pound of bees.
5 swarm boxes are held in a crate transported to our bee breeding yards,
The resident top breeding box, will be (striped of bees) shaken on to weights then the bees will be tipped into the 5 new packages and transported to there destinations by road sea air, All for the sum of ?95.50each
That gives the buyer/s (hobbyist farmers beeks pollination growers schools doctors TV personalities clergymen lords ladys boys girls ), the chance for the bees to grow and get a crop of honey by July/Aug or do whatever the owner wants the bees to do.
Australia imported hundred of thousands packages this year all over the world exactly the same its called exporting
I HAVE A DREAM I WILL BE UK FIRST.
all the best mike

 

[BKF Admin]

Evening Mike,is that a single malt or a blend tonight ?

 

[Polyanwood]

I do think that some people are a bit hypocritical about importing queens. The truth is that no-one in this country is successfully raising thousands of queens. Perhaps our climate is not ideal. We are just not meeting the demand. I would happily buy local queens, but haven't ever managed to buy a single one.

 

[mikeyspikey]

Absolutely spot on Polyanwood. As I have said many times on this an other forums I would not be a beek without using imported queens.How many other new beeks does this apply to?

We shall be having a go at rearing our queens this year after four years experience, feeling that we need to make a start with at least trying to make our bees more local. However I could never have contemplated starting this way. All those who advocate never importing queens are experienced beeks and have the bee stock to continue their colonies. Beginners are never in this position, unless of course they have local help as in RP's excellent association. In my experience, mainly from reading bee fora and talking to folks, these associations are few and far between.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

I hope one day Mike is out of bussiness or uses his own UK breed queens!!!!..............but until that day, to meet demand (which can only be a good thing) queens will have to be imported Single malt for me.

PS Mike you will not find me on your list, I have done all mine via my own UK queens. But a few corex boxes would be nice Mike!

 

[Bcrazy]

I do IMPORT QUEENS to use in my nucs and in my package bees 2,400 has been ordered for 2009 that should make you puke over the dog

That makes me want to puke all over you mikethebee.

Your imported queens have a certain genetic makeup. Their offspring will have these allele's to pass on in the form of drones, so its no wonder beekeepers that try to breed certain qualities in their bees have got two hopes. Bob Hope and No Hope with these imports.

Please tell me you have not received any orders from Cambridgeshire.

Do we have to put up with your bad manners every time you hit the bottle?

Best wishes

Regards;

 

[Finman]

.
You have in UK a good evolution power. Every year 30% of colonies are kicked off. Don't worry about bad alleles.

 

[Bcrazy]

Finman

I have just opened your post and find that your advising ;

Don't worry about bad alleles.

If I am trying to breed the bees to the standard I require, (and we all know that there will be throwbacks) then I should not be advised to not concern myself with alleles.
In fact I should be encouraged to breed my own queens to the standard I want the colonies to become.

Regards;

 

[Finman]

.
Brazy, it was meant a joke. I have studied genetics in university and the most important in beekeeping is take care of queens.

Most of beekeepers do not select their queens. They just swarm and raise new queens. Folks let bees rear queens from what ever. In forums folks encourage to take queen from swarm cells which is the most stupid way to rear queens.

On another hand, you are so madly loved to your "original" black mongrels. They are awfull creatures. They extinted from Finland, thanks to heaven ( / varroa).

Those mongrels have bee exported to all continents by Englishmen but they are not nursed there any more.

When you compare to your UK reality those Australian queens, finally they are not so bad . The reality is quite bad even now if you want real queen breeding.

********************

As you read just couple days ago: a sick queen have one queen cell and folks tell that "let the queen emerge" .... Who uses sick queen in breeding? - It so easy to make stupid things. ... and only problem is "do we have drones?". Look at the level where folks go.

 

[Poly Hive]

BCrazy? Just hang on here.

Ask yourself this minor question. Sitting down?

WHY? Why is there this insatiable demand in the UK for imported queens.

Mike is providing an answer to the demand which is entrepreneurial. I applaud him for that.

However the main issue is why is there the demand?

Discuss...

PH

 

[MJBee]

The very short answer is ignorance/lazyness

It is easier for the majority of hobby beekeepers to reach for the chequebook when a Q- problem appears - lazyness. It is also perceived that queen rearing is a complicated and difficult process and not worth the hassle of learning - ignorance.
I am guilty of both but am determined to raise my own and being 300 odd miles SOUTH of the Isle of Wight hope to have the weather to succeed.
Regards Mike

 

[gavin]

Hi PH

Entrepreneurial has to come with ethical too. If you read the discussion on another forum you'll see complaints of being misled about the origin of the bees and complaints of arbitrary deductions when he can't deliver and complaints of the quality of his product. On top of all that he is very rude.

The first time I questioned him here was because he was selling Carnolians to a beginner who is trying to keep bees in the far N of Scotland where forage is very sparse. He openly admitted that he didn't care what people did with the stocks they bought, it didn't seem to be a concern of his.

> WHY? Why is there this insatiable demand in the UK for imported queens.

Because ... there are few entreprises raising bees in the UK for sale (there are some!), and only a few BKAs have a system in place to raise for beginners the nucs to get them going. These things can be fixed, with encouragement. There's an area where goverment funding could really make a difference.

Additional reasons are - more beginners around perhaps, more winter losses than usual (hopefully this has now come to and end), and an impatience to get bees at the start of the season when the more usual time to start beekeeping historically has been at swarming time.

best wishes

Gavin

 

[Finman]

.
About your winter losses I can say here from north that your habits are so nailed that no one can help you.

In Finland we have much smaller winter losses. I think that your 30% dead rate is a National Treasure.

I can see from you writings that you try to overwinter too small colonies. They are difficult and difficult to grow up in spring.
And you do not care about heat or insullation during winter. It is critical to small colonies. I have succesfully wintered some 2-frame nucs with 3 W electrict heating. The winter is 5 months long when bees are inside all the time.

But I have had now some difficulties when I bought 5 years ago queen from Italy and got those southern "alleles" into my genepool.
But I got good genes too.

 

[Poly Hive]

The main reason is Swarming guys and the sheer inability to find the queen.

And donkeys years of teaching that a new queen will mean no swarming which is blatant nonsense.

Until over wintered nucs are deemed to be sensible, which will mean a sea change in the BBKA I will not hold my breath.

As to northing, well I was taken aback to find that a highly successful bee farmer in the north of Scotland is using queens from Haiwi. Successfully.

PH

 

[Bcrazy]

Hi PH,

I don't want to add more than what's already been covered.

I do not begrudge Mike the get up a go attitude to import queens as there is a market to be filled.

I find his manner highly ignorant towards beekeepers in general and see no reason for this type of behaviour.

I have found within the association I belong to its only 'lip service' towards raising your own queens, as mentioned previously, its easier to pay for someone else to do the work.

Regards;

have just read the post above. Yes PH it is the inexperienced beekeeper that instead of trying methods to control swarming and to find and mark the queen, its easier for them to pay. Then they go around bragging what a wonderful queen this type of bee is, never thinking to try and breed from them.

 

[Busy Bee]

What would happen if you crossed a "Buckfast Bee" with a native "Black Bee" just a thought.

Busy Bee

 

[Mission]

Here is the thing I really don't understand (and Mike please believe me that I am not trying to be argumentitive).

Mike is being open and honest to us all, that he is importing 2400 queens this year to meet demand. But I cannot understand why he is needing to do this when his success level at raising them in the UK is superb.

The easybee web site clearly states "1,800 carnioli queens reared this year at Mikes breeding yards have been sold to beekeepers in the UK."

1800 succesfully bred in the UK in Mike own yards is an amazing achievement - especially as Mike tells us that breeding queens in the UK is unsuccessful. It's a shame this can't be expanded to hit the additional queens that Mike needs.

PolyHive raises a great question about why there is demand. I see there being three parts to the answer. Colonies failing and the media interest in Bee's and why colonies fail, and finally a limted supply of bees.

1, If a supplier provides 2000 colonies and of these a statistical 30% fail, then already the following year there is a market for 600 replacement colonies.

2, The media are making lots of stories available and making bee keeping look very attractive. Driving demand for new colonies.

3, Bee keepers have got it into their heads that queen rearing, and nuc building is difficult. And for that reason they fail to do it. So bees are always going to be in demand until we change the pattern. Mike has a cornered market and such can make the decision as to where he buys his queens from. He knows that no matter what a small minority think, the majority will still buy. It's a perfect sensible business model.

The truth of the matter is that there is no longer an English honey bee. We have nothing other than mixed race imports. No matter how many generations they have lived in the UK. The simple fact is that we all already have imported bees. The only difference with these and the one that Mike is importing is that the ones already here have the proven genetic adaptations to survive in the UK. At the moment, these Ausie bees have nothing proven.

Many of you will be aware of the National Queen Rearing Programme that myself and a few other people are working on. We are aiming to try and get people raising there own queens. If we can do it and make it work, then the very need to import queens in such high numbers will be lowered. Mikes web site categorically tells his customers that he has succesfully reared 1800 queens last year. So that in itself is proof that queen rearing in the UK can be done.

Jay.

 

[Wendy122]

I think the ambiguity on the website is what we all hate. Mike omits to be clear that 90% his breeding yards are not in this country.

I support him and others in selling imported queens. I have bought imports and imported myself. There is no current rules or laws against this.

What is not correct or lawful is to miss represent as being some thing it is not. This is done by being a master at words. If a poll of 100 people where done many would think the queens where from the UK as the seller is in the UK and mentions his breeding yards. It is what is not mentioned that is critical.

Mike do the honorable thing and reword your website and make it obvious. If you do I support you fully and wish you all the luck and money in the world. Your customers will respect you and come back for more. They will have no doubts as to what they expect.

Remember many new beeks have not found the forums so telling the truth here is not absolving you from your responsibilities to your new customers.

W

 

[Finman]

I support him and others in selling imported queens. I have bought imports and imported myself. There is no current rules or laws against this.

As I have said, bee forum is no a place where we should shoot each others' business on standing feets.

 

[Polyanwood]

It is not just laziness that stops most people raising their own queens.....if you only have a few colonies and there is something undesirable about all of them, then you shouldn't breed from them. One of the local superbeeks who saw my bees said that they were so defensive I should remove as much drone brood as I could in order to stop everyone else's bees becoming like them.

If one of my hives goes queenless, I can only manage to transfer eggs from the best hive into the queenless colony, so that they raise the best queen I could get from my yard. Not very impressive especially as they will be mating randomly in the drone layer.

Instrumental insemination is a step too far for me... I would need to be much more skilled at handling bees before I could do that.