imperial threads

[hedgerow pete]

Sorry but even at mid fourty I am still to young to understand old english gibberish.

I am looking to buy a tap and thread set to make some new fishing bank sticks. I have just run the thread gauges across an old one and have either

20G 1/4 whitworth at 55 degrees
or
20G unified at 60 degrees.

can anyone translate these into new english or french rather than old english please,

or does anyone know the thread size for fishing bank sticks etc.

pete the confused

 

[For want of a better word]

Probably 1/4 Whitworth

can you count the number of TPI (Turns, Teeth or Threads per inch) if it is 22 TPI it could be Cycle thread!

I would get a 1/4 Whitworth nut and see if it fits nicely!

Good Luck

 

[hedgerow pete]

ok i will try that, thanks

 

[Poly Hive]

The oldest doge going to find out the thread you have is to try it with known nuts. KISS

PH

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

See if you can find someone with a thread gauge...

 

[hedgerow pete]

i am sorry to say but ALL my nuts are french not english and deffinatly not 50 years out of date i am affriad. i dont even own any old english spanners or taps and dies, they are all french.

 

[yeogi75]

hi pete
if you are making new bank sticks and head surley it wont make any diffrence,unless you are making bank stick to fit old head

 

[yeogi75]

here in leicester we made everything,from the methode,platforms,trollys,rigs and outriggers , but as you know all to expensive

 

[iand]

Hi this takes me back a bit just checking in Zeus most of the specs are fairly similar unless you can measure accurately within a few thou and only using thread wires. Probably the best if you have a thread guage is to view the angle critically. Because tpi, od , pitch are similar.

.... 1/4" whit 55deg ........... 1/4" UNC 60deg
core dia of bolt 0.1860" ........... 0.1887"
depth of thread 0.0320" .......... 0.03067"
effective 0.2180" ................ 0.2175"

Above are the standards for thread sizes, I'll leave you to ponder which is more open
shallow or whatever.
Hope it helps you

cheers ian

 

[hedgerow pete]

what i am up to in my time of enforced unemployment is to bugger off fishing!!

dug what can be called as my old fishing equipment out of the shed. spent a few quid on fleabay for some more old tackle. now whilst i like the idea of making a few bank sticks up in stainless or ali , i was more thinking of cleaning the old threads up some are quite coroided. I was then wondering what size to use as the metric ones i have dont work.

I dug the zeus and the micro out and the thread gauges. then i realised i was dealing with 50 year old old english and to which i ant got a clue at all.

i would love to make some bank sticks up as i can always find lots of ali tubes and the odd bit of plastic and stainless, i dont have a lathe so the making and turning of the ends are where i would fall down. i do like the idea though

 

[stubee]

hi pete I all ways used 3/8 BSF

 

[iand]

It could also be a special. We did some locking rings once with a pitch for a std 6or7mm but the piece was more like 50mm. So it could also be an oddball. Sounds a bit like a steady away job with a file unless they are to far gone.
Have fun

ian

 

[alanf]

what i am up to in my time of enforced unemployment is to bugger off fishing!!

dug what can be called as my old fishing equipment out of the shed. spent a few quid on fleabay for some more old tackle. now whilst i like the idea of making a few bank sticks up in stainless or ali , i was more thinking of cleaning the old threads up some are quite coroided. I was then wondering what size to use as the metric ones i have dont work.

I dug the zeus and the micro out and the thread gauges. then i realised i was dealing with 50 year old old english and to which i ant got a clue at all.

i would love to make some bank sticks up as i can always find lots of ali tubes and the odd bit of plastic and stainless, i dont have a lathe so the making and turning of the ends are where i would fall down. i do like the idea though

50 years old would be UNF. Or at least that's what nearly all the British built cars of the era were using. It you need any spares or tools for old threads the classic car trade is probably the best place to start lookng. There is enough demand to keep a number of specialists producing to the old standards.

 

[ebee]

Hi Pete,
Don’t worry. ¼ Whit and ¼ UNC (not UNF) are interchangeable. As you’ve said the only difference is the thread angle of 55 and 60 deg and the tpi is the same. So one will fit the other.

www.tracytools.com Try looking on this web site. They’re good suppliers who have served me well. Other suppliers are available. Try a local engineers merchant if in doubt.

 

[victor meldrew]

Sorry but even at mid fourty I am still to young to understand old english gibberish.

I am looking to buy a tap and thread set to make some new fishing bank sticks. I have just run the thread gauges across an old one and have either

20G 1/4 whitworth at 55 degrees
or
20G unified at 60 degrees.

can anyone translate these into new english or french rather than old english please,

or does anyone know the thread size for fishing bank sticks etc.

pete the confused

Take a rod rest with it's male thread, alomg to a branch of Brabbin and Rudd of some similar out fit an ask them to try their stock to check if suitable nut size is in stock!!.
VM

 

[Teemore]

Pete,
I think it most likely that the thread will be UNF - it had slightly wider application than Whitworth but there may have been a tradition in using Josiah Whitworth's thread in making these bank sticks.
Frosts Automotive do a special file to reclaim threads on bolts etc - it works whether you are using UNF/UNC/Whit/BSP or Metric.... I think it is just called a thread file or thread chaser or something like that.
I'm in the process of restoring an old landrover (or three) and so am working with a mixture of the above and I clean up threads with a wire brush and in some instances, a small warding file - nowt too extravagant! If you can find a nut that matches the thread, cut completely through one face of the nut, right through into the 'centre' of the nut and use this to clean the thread on your bank sticks. Use some parafin or WD 40 etc as a lubricant. The cut in the side of the nut helps clear the rust and dirt off the threaded component. If it is a threaded hole you need to clean, just cut down into the threaded end of a suitable bolt and use that to clear the hole. Usual advice, don't force things - back off the nut or bolt a bit if you start to meet resistance and just work it back and forth: clear the rust away progressively.

 

[RoofTops]

The consensus seems to suggest they are all 3/8" BSF: (as stubee said)

http://barbelfishingworld.yuku.com/topic/9832

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110724005656AAnFSvI

 

[hedgerow pete]

I shall go with the 3/8 old english , all i have to do now is find a ten pound note spare to buy the taps and dies. thanks for the help all.

it does make you wonder why after 50 years of imperial being condemed to the scrap heap of silly measurements that they have not gone french

 

[oliver90owner]

it does make you wonder why after 50 years of imperial being condemed to the scrap heap of silly measurements that they have not gone french

Wrong on a couple points.

Silly measurements - not so silly. In fact looking from the other side, the Imperial were silly, thread (bolt) size - Whitworth, nut size (A/F), a multitude of 'specials' - Acme, B.A., Cycle and others.

The other silly differences were the thread angles 55 and 60 degrees being almost the same but not quite compatible. The Americans or the British could be blamed for that!

The 'Unified' threads around (WWII) just made it more of a minefield.

French Not really 'French' at all. Metric, which the rest of the world adopted long since (apart from a few slow on the uptake) is the system, not french. A far better system for measurement with engineering instruments. Even the Imperial at least had one thousandths of an inch as one universally accepted unit!

To why are they still in use? Well, two reasons I can think of. First, some of the stuff made back then is still serviceable (and rightly so, because it was well made) but may need maintenance to keep it in service for another fifty years. Secondly, there are some out there that perpetuate the use of these old measurements by insisting on using them even now.

BTW, thread cleaning taps and dies (chasers) are cheap. Good thread-cutting taps and dies are not so cheap as a ten pound note.

Regards, RAB

 

[rae]

This chart:

http://mdmetric.com/tech/tict.htm

And a set of thread gauges (£6) and a cheap vernier caliper (£10) will identify pretty much any thread you find.

I've got that chart printed and laminated in the "measurement" drawer of the roll cab in the garage.