I'm getting confused!

[Skyhook]

I thought I knew my plans- build up the colony early, push on to double brood, get a crop of OSR, then split to probably 2 hives and a nuc.

This is complicated by the fact that I'm also changing to 14 x 12. I was planning to expand from the standard brood into a 14 x 12 box, using the standard frames for the nuc and for sacrificial drone frames. I'm now thinking it might be simpler to change them onto 14 x 12 by shook swarm or Bailey change- however can I do this without putting the mockers on the rest of the plan? As well as reading everything else I've read the recent threads on spring stimulation, double brood and changing to 14 x 12, and now my brain's starting to overheat. Please could some experienced beeks apply the cool flannel of reality to the fevered brow of my ambitions? I'm currently favouring a bailey change, but in the other post on changing to 14 x 12 it's suggested this isn't suitable in OSR areas, and while I might have to forgo the crop, I would like to get some if I can.

 

[Mike a]

It would need to be a very prolific queen to require double 14x12 brood chambers, and it would take a long time for the colony to expand to make full use of both chambers unless you are planning to extract 14x12 frames or there is a good nectar flow in your area and you need to add supers.

 

[Heather]

We all have that overwhelming-'what am I doing' time!!

If you want to change over to 14x12 I would personally hang on till you have a good ripe queen cell- then move that hive to 6'away. Find the queen and put that frame (ensuring no queen cells there as well) safely in a nuc box for the time being. After setting up a new hive on the old site put the standard frame with the queen into the new hive and surround the frame with your new 14x12's.

In the original hive put your new 14x12's and shake all the bees off the old frames then putting them away from the hives, and gently replace the frame with the queen cell on in between these new frames.. As this hive is on the new site the flying bees will go from the new site back to the old queen so balancing up the colony as hopefully you have whopped a load of the house bees to the new site.

They will make nice drone cells and brood on the base of the single smaller brood frame - bonus. Cull some for varroa but leave lots for drone population boost for your county!!

And this is why its confusing!! but easier to do than to explain- honest.

Isnt he wanting to just change from standard to 14x12 - will re read....

 

[beebreeder]

So you want one colony to d this in one season
1. Change to 14x12 by shook swarm
2. Get on to 14x12 DOUBLE BROOD
3. Get an acceptable honey crop
4. Make at least one extra colony
5. Make at least one nuc
I am not being rude but how long have you been keeping bees? Unless you are very used to dealing with very big colonies I would re-plan

 

[MuswellMetro]

I thought I knew my plans- build up the colony early, push on to double brood, get a crop of OSR, then split to probably 2 hives and a nuc.

.

if you have bees that are able to move into double brood after one year then you must be running carnies and even then double brood is ambitiuos for a second year hive

lets use the carnies swarming instinct to help split and transfer to a 14x12

let them biuld up in a standard brood box and then when they build QC do a standard artificial swarm but use a 14x12box of 10 foundation frames plus the old queen on a single standard brood frame for the new hive on the old stand

The old brood box on the new stand with the QC frames will provide a virgin queen(s) for this old hive and then migrate this hive slowly to 14x12 by adding a 14x12 eke ( or transfer old frames to a 14x12 brood) and over the summer adding 14x12 frames as you rota old frames out

you could also consider a divide of the old hive into a hive+nuc or 3 nucs, if you have no nuc pack out a 14x12 to nuc size

 

[Skyhook]

I think I sort of know it's a big ask, maybe too big, to get everything I want. Also they're Italians- fairly prolific but not at all swarmy- last year lots of bees but not a single QC. For this reason I'm expecting to have to separate the boxes to induce queen cells, although as HM is a year older this might make the difference.

My top priority is increase- fully aware of how at risk I am with 1 colony, plus the big plan is to build up to, say, 10 hives in 5 years, and I have to start somewhere. Definitely want to get to 2 colonies, keeping fingers crossed for 2 hives and a nuc.

Next is getting onto 14 x 12- this is what I've set up for kit wise. Seems like the way to go, only reason they're not on that at the moment is they're in the box they came in. This also means clean combs would be a nice idea, they've currently got 6-7 not bad and 4-5 quite old.

Some honey would be nice, if they have time.

 

[Heather]

As the queen is a year old- and they build rapidly in April- very thorough inspection..would be unusual not to get a queen cell.
If they are being really good and not producing Qcells but getting very big -then I would split equally - bearing in mind the foragers will return to original site so allow for that possible imbalance by over stocking new site hive. More than 4' away. Ensure 1 day eggs in the queenless colony to allow them to develop a decent queen. All brood frames to centre of hive when you split.All new 14x12 to sides and as the brood emerges you can move those frames out over the weeks.
New frames?- feed those bees- 1:1 syrup as they have lots of building to do. but don't overfeed or queen will lose laying space. Balancing act.

 

[Rosti]

As said above I dont think you'll get the lot but it is possible - why?

Well I transfered a colony from Std Nat BB to 14x12 (straight foundation) in April 2010 with about 5 ltrs of 1:1 syrup assistance (old BB was demareed). Then they gave a super of OSR Honey by end of may. Then I gave them back their original Nat BB box as well (already drawn) some supers and they gave another 2 supers of honey, a total of 85Lbs plus a box change.

No chance of swarming tendency measure with the box change of course, but they didnt swarm the year before, but not suprising that I am trying to breed from her! Its a fun story but obviously an exception to the rule book, not sure how they managed it, must have been knacked come August!

Edit note: fully establish colony in fully drawn Std BB that had had spring stimulation feeding and pollen patties - oh and they have now wintred on effectively 2.5 brood (but I will cut them back to 14x12 this spring and take nucs from the original nat BB)