Ideal Overwinter Configuration

[nickhodge]

Hi

Although we have had a few warm days recently I have all but given up being able to do much more with my two hives. What confuses me at the minute is the ideal configuration to over winter.

I extracted some honey from a super on each hive but left them any frames which were not capped. I then allowed them to draw that into the brood box and barring a little left they have done that. I had not wanted to leave the super on as I would want to exclude the queen and there would be a danger she would be left cold in the brood box if the cluster moved up???

This leaves me with a good colony of bees in each, reasonable stores, OM floor with varroa board in, crown board, roof and entrance reducer with mouse guard.

Does that sound a reasonable set up to overwinter with?

I plan to heft from time to time and if light apply a rapid feeder (1:1) in an empty super above the crown board surrounded by Celotex to fill the void.

Does this also sound reasonable?

Certainly in nice weathere here in Southampton on Tuesday they were VERY active on the front of the hive and a visit around my property found the ivy alive with my bees, so they are still also bringing in.

I have another question on stored supers and wax useage but will open another thread for that. (After searching)

Thanks for all opinions

 

[Ely]

I wouldn't feed 1:1 but would feed fondant if they are in need. There is less water content. I would also remove the inspection tray to improve ventilation. If it snows you may want to pop it back in as the snow may reflect light into the hive making them want to fly. The cold would then kill them, also prop a board over the hive to shadow the entrance.

Edit. Lots of beekeepers on this forum get their fondant from a baker so that should be ok. I'd be tempted to find out the make and properties and ask another beek on here if it is ok though.

 

[nickhodge]

Ely

Thanks for that. With reducer and mouse guard the entrance is literally about 5 or 6 bee sized holes. Did you mean just lean a board against the front of the hive at an angle so basically try and keep everything dark?

On fondant that would make sense. Again, just on the crown board with bee escape removed or quick lift of board and direct on frames?

I was thinking of getting baker's fondant from the local baker????

 

[drstitson]

1. inspection board out
2. fondant feed overwinter

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I wouldn't feed 1:1 but would feed fondant if they are in need. There is less water content. I would also remove the inspection tray to improve ventilation. If it snows you may want to pop it back in as the snow may reflect light into the hive making them want to fly. The cold would then kill them, also prop a board over the hive to shadow the entrance.

Lean a board across the entrance if you have snow, apart from that - baker's fondant if light on stores and inspection tray out.

Just picked up half a Ton of fondant from Bako for the association! they can also supply bee candy and ready mixed sugar syrup if needs be

 

[Ely]

Just anything to create a shadow over the entrance when it snows really. I tend not to feed overwinter myself but a lot of beekeepers put fondant in a takeaway container and place that over the feed hole.

 

[oliver90owner]

No real ideal configuration but full box(es) and lots of healthy bees is a good start.

If on OMF, no top ventilation at all (I don't leave any holes up top, even if on a solid floor at any time of the year).

Other protection, dependent on location, is desirable for a good strong colony expansion in spring. That includes top insulation, shelter from the elements and woodpecker and rodent proof precautions as appropriate.

I believe that for the sake of a few drawn frames with brood in them in spring (no real hassle), it is better that they are left with a brood and a super; there must be no Q/E fitted between, of course, until spring brooding starts in the lower box. It would certainly not bother me (and didn't, when I ran two boxes as a regular over-wintering configuration. People have too many hang-ups (IMO) about brood in shallow frames, but that is your choice, I suppose.

Maybe you need to consider what the bees would ideally prefer than simply for your convenience. They,after all, are the most valuble asset for you as a beekeeper going into the spring. Dead-outs are not very productive!

 

[Ely]

Lean a board across the entrance if you have snow, apart from that - baker's fondant if light on stores and inspection tray out.

Just picked up half a Ton of fondant from Bako for the association! they can also supply bee candy and ready mixed sugar syrup if needs be

Blimey, that's a lot of sugar! Does the association have a lot of hives or is most of it for the tea and cake at meetings?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Blimey, that's a lot of sugar! Does the association have a lot of hives or is most of it for the tea and cake at meetings?

It's mostly for the iced buns!!

All the fondant is for the members' own hives - I set up an account via a contact I have - we already have a stock of fondant for the apiary

 

[UEAHoneyBeeMan]

........Just picked up half a Ton of fondant from Bako for the association! they can also supply bee candy and ready mixed sugar syrup if needs be

During a discussion earlier this Summer the issue of HMF in bakers fondant was raised as an issue due the the method used to make the fondant. I used some bakers fondant last year with no ill effects but am just a little wary this year.

Any thoughts?

 

[Ely]

It's mostly for the iced buns!!

All the fondant is for the members' own hives - I set up an account via a contact I have - we already have a stock of fondant for the apiary

Good idea. Do you do similar thing with frames and foundation?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

During a discussion earlier this Summer the issue of HMF in bakers fondant was raised as an issue due the the method used to make the fondant. I used some bakers fondant last year with no ill effects but am just a little wary this year.

Any thoughts?

Seems to be what everybody uses never heard there being an issue - one of the alternatives would be Bee candy (also sold by Bako - 41% sucrose 59% dextrose) at £16.85 for 10 KG (packaged in four handy tubs to put directly on to hive) as opposed to £12.03 for fondant.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Good idea. Do you do similar thing with frames and foundation?

No we don't - but it is an idea for the future.

 

[itma]

... With reducer and mouse guard the entrance is literally about 5 or 6 bee sized holes. ...

There is a risk that those few holes could get bunged-up with dead bees.

For that reason, I remove the entrance-reducer-block when fitting the mouseguard.

If you have a wasp problem, maybe use them together for a while (and check frequently that it is unobstructed by poking through the holes that should be open), but when it starts getting cold enough to finish off the wasps, get that reducer out -- one less thing to worry about!

 

[Outlander]

During a discussion earlier this Summer the issue of HMF in bakers fondant was raised as an issue due the the method used to make the fondant. I used some bakers fondant last year with no ill effects but am just a little wary this year.

Any thoughts?

I recently picked up some fondant from a wholesaler her in Norwich. I received a telephone call yesterday from the guy there that served me. He said that he had been informed that normal baker’s fondant can cause diarrhoea and that they now could supply one especially made for bees. He will contact me when he gets it in. So any ideas what he is on about getting in?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I recently picked up some fondant from a wholesaler her in Norwich. I received a telephone call yesterday from the guy there that served me. He said that he had been informed that normal baker’s fondant can cause diarrhoea and that they now could supply one especially made for bees. He will contact me when he gets it in. So any ideas what he is on about getting in?

Ragus pure sugar bee candy - they're trying hard to muscle in on the market via Bako at £16.85 for 10 kilos - it's a 'white/cream crystaline block containing sucrose and dextrose made with with.................

SUGAR!
Tell him to poke it and carry on buying baker's fondant

They also sell ready mixed sugar syrup (not invert, but I am in the process of checking) at £ 31.95 for 25 kilos

 

[Ely]

I recently picked up some fondant from a wholesaler her in Norwich. I received a telephone call yesterday from the guy there that served me. He said that he had been informed that normal baker’s fondant can cause diarrhoea and that they now could supply one especially made for bees. He will contact me when he gets it in. So any ideas what he is on about getting in?

Something more expensive probably

 

[isc26]

Roof
Empty super with fondant + Kingspan/celotex block
Crown Board with open hole to fondant (or perspex/glass crownboard with hole)
Brood Box
Super with stores
OMfloor
Stand

 

[user 6228]

ideal configuration = Tree

 

[MuswellMetro]

well this is my overwinter

roof
2" 46x45cm Kingspan
solid crown board
14x12
OMF with Varroa board out and back sealed
empty super
floor

if i heft and they need feeding but 14x12 normally dont then i add an eke and place fondant direct on the frame tops

or if i know there are light to begin with then i use a feeder crown board from the start with 46x46cm insulation with removeable takeaway tub size plug for fondant with a 46x46cm 2"solid slab on top of that

only ventlation is the the open OMF and follows the work of Bernard Mobus