I Have an Idea - Will it Work ?

[ROACHMAN]

I need to raise a few queens this year.

Ive come up with the following idea, but will it work ?

When its time to do an artificial swarm, split the hive

Get a frame with some queen rearing cups attached to it, graft into the cups some newly hatched larva from a prefered hive.

Go through the Q- half of the artificial swarm at destroy all queen cells and cups

Add the queen rearing frame to the Q- half

After 12 days check the frame and remove all sealed queen cells to other hives apart from one.

Hopefully the remaining queen will hatch and mate.

Will this work ??

 

[Poly Hive]

"Go through the Q- half of the artificial swarm at destroy all queen cells and cups

Add the queen rearing frame to the Q- half"

I would make very VERY sure there are no sneaky cells lurking, and then wait another five days.

If you offer your grafts to a Q- unit which has loads of material from which to make their own cells from your offering will be ignored. by waiting until all the larvae are too old for them to be successfully used you are loading your chances in your favour.

However I still prefer to shake a starter box full and use them, no brood temptations at all you see?

PH

 

[ROACHMAN]

queen rearing

Thanks for that polyhive.

What about : Collect a swarm, find and kill the queen, add the grafts ??

 

[jezd]

Seems an odd way to do things, use an AS to start queen rearing - it should be on your terms rather than as and when a colony decides to start swarming. What if they dont start swarm? are you going to not bother queen rearing?

Would it work? maybe but I would imagine that you would be limited to the number of Q's you could raise given that its an AS - as its a split its already been weakened and then you want to start them from scratch to raise new queens.

Queen rearing needs big strong colonies (double brood even) - using an AS I dont think fits the bill.

Just my thoughts.

JD

 

[drstitson]

better to use the Morris Board method and get a gentle supply of queen cells.

 

[mbc]

Not a totaly daft idea IMO.
I wouldnt split then as in a traditional AS, but if you remove the old queen from a swarming colony ( perhaps on one frame into a small nuc somewhere else) then the remaining colony is supremely primed for making excellent queencells and would accept a frame of graffts very nicely. As others have said, check carefully for 'wild' cells.

 

[the naked beekeeper]

I think Finman grafts his preferred larvae into swarming Queen cups. So others do do it.

PH, when you mention to shake bees into a starter box and use them as a queen raising unit..do you do a nuc full or a hive full?

The reason I ask is I was unsure as to how well a nuc could bring on a queen, and would be interested in your views on strength of the raising unit V efficiency at raising a decent queen.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have created a bit of confusion here.

When I shake bees for a starter box I use a nucleus box to house the shook bees. Nothing at all to do with a nucleus colony. I hope that is clear?

I take an empty nuc box, shake in several frames of queen free bees, and then feed them over night. the nuc at that point contains a pollen frame, preferably two of them, and two frames of stores though they never use them, and a gap.

If the starter box is made up strongly enough in themorning when offering the grafts there should be a festoon of bees hanging from the roof in that gap. So yes, very strong. And they will repay you by doing a great job with the grafts.

Queenless swarm? I wouldn't as they are not in the right mood. And having the bees in the appropriate mood is one of the critical elements for grafting success.

PH

 

[mbc]

Queenless swarm? I wouldn't as they are not in the right mood. And having the bees in the appropriate mood is one of the critical elements for grafting success.

PH

If a hive intent on swarming is deprived of its queen and started queencells, its "mood" for producing queencells surpasses any other I can imagine apart from the unnatural situation of a box full of trapped, queenless and broodless bees.
Admittedly a starter box of trapped, queenless and broodless bees is a fine way of getting a large proportion of grafts accepted but they will then need to be transferred to a finishing colony for reasonable results, whereas grafts started and finished in a hive intent on swarming made queenless would result in the best possible virgins.
Sticking to the ball, but itching to argue !

 

[drstitson]

mbc -

yes a hive INTENT on swarming and deprived of QCs will be a good place to start off grafts (provided they are deprived of their own offspring to use)

BUT the comment by PH was referring to Roachman's suggestion ie using an actual caught swarm deprived of it's queen. that's a totally different ball game - a different mix of bees, expecting to get on with colony building not swarm preps.

edited to clarify for mbc.

 

[mbc]

mbc -

yes a hive INTENT on swarming and deprived of QCs will be a good place to start off grafts (provided they are deprived of their own offspring to use)

BUT the original query was using an actual caught swarm deprived of it's queen. that's a totally different ball game - a different mix of bees, expecting to get on with colony building not swarm preps.

I took the liberty of reading the original query, and the following posts, took a little time to ponder and then posted.
The quoted post above seems more akin to an involuntary fart.