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well - if there are no native honey bees left in the uk - why do people get their knickers in a twist when people use Buckies or similar - no point trying to maintain the genetic integrity of something that doesn't exist.

Anyway, hunting for bees in the heart of the Tywi forest was pretty pointless - bare, cold barren, uninviting area where no bee would venture
 
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Kielder forest is the same - just acre after acre of evergreens.

At the end of the day if beekeepers had not imported back in the 20s there would be no honeybees feral or managed. It was needs must then.

Does make me wonder about bumblebees. Now imported and used in glasshouses - will their genetic diversity start becoming more at risk as more of these imports come in.
 
At the end of the day if beekeepers had not imported back in the 20s there would be no honeybees feral or managed. It was needs must then.

Really?! They would have died out after surviving thousands of years?! I didn't know that. That is awful!
 
My goodness ... just goes to show that if you ask four experts on beekeeping for their opinion you will get five different opinions ... Some very interesting comments in there and Catherine Thompson has taken a long time to get her paper published ... will be interesting to see what it says when it eventually comes out. Nice photo of her balancing on a church roof in the pursuit of science !!
 
Surely any colony living somewhere other than in a managed hive is wild.
 
Surely any colony living somewhere other than in a managed hive is wild.

Bit like the wild Tamar and Thames salmonids.... molecular biological science has proven without a doubt 18century pollution events (sh*t in the Thames, Mining waste in the Tamar)killed off ALL the endemic fish. The wild salmonids are now from fishfarms etc.

It would seem the very same science has proven without any doubt that the English black honeybee ( Apis mellifera mellifera ) our very own endemic honey bee has survived

I have believed for many years that there are no truly wild honeybees in the UK, only feral sites, that get repopulated with whatever bee there is around.

There is also reference to the fact that local populations of honey bee tend to out perform ones imported from another area/ state/ country/ planet!

All this will stick in the craw of the creationist beekeepers ou ther no doubt!


James
 
well - if there are no native honey bees left in the uk - why do people get their knickers in a twist when people use Buckies or similar - no point trying to maintain the genetic integrity of something that doesn't exist.

Possibly Sir, you should try to keep up and read the report!







James
 
Christ - a great thread. I love the sparking bitching and jibing that goes on. What entertainment. Its like debating whether god exists - which ever camp you belong to it does not matter one iota. If your a beekeeper your are going above and all the rest will be warm below !! Does it really matter?
 
well - if there are no native honey bees left in the uk - why do people get their knickers in a twist when people use Buckies or similar - no point trying to maintain the genetic integrity of something that doesn't exist.

Possibly Sir, you should try to keep up and read the report!
James
I will, when I have time next week - and also believe there are survivors of our native British bee left in the country. Just get narked by some of the AMM zealots!
 
Some people scoff at the notion of "locally adapted bees" but, to me, this describes bees that are allowed to get on with "evolution". If the genetics of our bees were not continually compromised by imported genes, then the "nativeness" of our bees would be expressed again. They were, after all, the genes that evolved and survived before mass importation became the norm, whether that was in the 1850s, 1920s or anytime ever since. Any "less fit" genes would be weeded out by natural selection, and we would probably end up with something very akin to the original "native bee", whatever that was. (I very much doubt that the "British" native bee was ever one and the same thing across the country - it is likely that "locally adapted" races of the British bee existed to cope with the range of climatic conditions.)

So, despite all our meddling, (and still failing to grasp the inherent dangers of moving - any kind of - genetic material around the world), our bees still have up to 45% native genetics. I think that's amazing, and indicates the hardiness of the native genetics. The great pity is that we beekeepers - who, since the arrival varroa, are apparently responsible for the survival of the honey bee - continue to bastardise our bees.
 
Some people scoff at the notion of "locally adapted bees" but, to me, this describes bees that are allowed to get on with "evolution". If the genetics of our bees were not continually compromised by imported genes, then the "nativeness" of our bees would be expressed again. They were, after all, the genes that evolved and survived before mass importation became the norm, whether that was in the 1850s, 1920s or anytime ever since. Any "less fit" genes would be weeded out by natural selection, and we would probably end up with something very akin to the original "native bee", whatever that was. (I very much doubt that the "British" native bee was ever one and the same thing across the country - it is likely that "locally adapted" races of the British bee existed to cope with the range of climatic conditions.)

So, despite all our meddling, (and still failing to grasp the inherent dangers of moving - any kind of - genetic material around the world), our bees still have up to 45% native genetics. I think that's amazing, and indicates the hardiness of the native genetics. The great pity is that we beekeepers - who, since the arrival varroa, are apparently responsible for the survival of the honey bee - continue to bastardise our bees.

As my old Physics Professor would have said .. This is the crux of the matter!


My sister keeps a Carniolian / Italian type hybrid bee in North Devon, and despite what I would term occasional grumpiness ( particularly when q-) and following and pinging that seems to be an inherent trait she extracts as much honey from the dozen colonies in Nationals as I manage with my 8 WBC's !

We still see each other every week!

To counter the Black bee zealot thing, I for one get fed up with the B******t lobby!

Each to their own
Just try not to import


James
 

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