How nasty is Apivar for humans?

[user 20297]

I intend to treat my largest colonies with Apivar for the first time. I've read all the literature and watched all the videos. It sounds like a great product for destroyimg mites. But I'm a bit worried that every frame of comb that is in the hive during treatment is going to be out of bounds for honey extraction in the future.

In any hive where I can't avoid leaving in two boxes at this stage, that leaves a lot of frames which can only be used for brood n the future. That makes an additional task of labelling the frames and it would possibly be wise to store them separately from untreated frames.

I know there are alternatives; last year I didn't treat and got away with it. I could use a different treatment, but Apivar sounds just right for me. I haven't seen any discussions which have touched on this aspect consequent to the extreme effectiveness and persistence of the active ingredient. I'm wondering what precautions are taken by other beekeepers in order to ensure that their honey production is not contaminated with Amitraz?

 

[spiderplantman]

Instructions say don’t treat when supers are on, so if they’re off, it won’t get in your honey.

 

[user 20297]

Instructions say don’t treat when supers are on, so if they’re off, it won’t get in your honey.

But it will get in any stores in any brood boxes and will impregnate the wax in any combs which are present. As far as I'm aware, honey can be moved around within a hive and contaminated stores may still be present long after treatment.

A couple of my hives have a shallow box above a main deep brood, containing some brood and stores Previously I would have been able to reuse any of those frames, shallow or deep, in any part of the hive. After treatment I'm not sure I should be doing that.

 

[Foxylad]

Says withdrawal period on honey 0 days. So I can not extract honey when treating?

 

[user 20297]

Says withdrawal period on honey 0 days. So I can not extract honey when treating?

As far as I can tell, you must not extract any honey for human consumption which was present when treating. What I'm concerned about is how persistent the active ingredient appears to be.

 

[Boston Bees]

Amitraz is not really of concern to humans, in reality. I mean, don't suck an Apivar strip, but even if you did I suspect absolutely nothing would happen. To put it in context, Amitraz is widely used in dog flea collars. I touch my dogs flea collar several times per day. No doubt I then put my fingers in my mouth or on food.

I suspect that even if you put Apivar in a super, then extracted the honey, the health implications of consuming it would be zero.

Zero use of Apivar in supers is recommended on a precautionary basis - it's best to avoid pesticides in food on principle where possible, of course - rather than because anyone thinks that eating tainted honey is going to result in mass casualties.

 

[Boston Bees]

As the study linked here says, human poisoning cases are very rare, tend to involve children, and have happened only where Amitraz has been consumed "neat". God knows how much honey you would need to eat to get that kind of dose.

https://bmcpharmacoltoxicol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40360-016-0114-5

 

[Foxylad]

I understand it’s accepted that we shouldn’t extract honey once we have started treatment. But reading the manufacturer’s label it does not say that.

 

[Foxylad]

Sorry on the outside it says zero days, but inside says not when supers are present.

 

[bobba]

Here is some info about the Toxcisity of the AI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amitraz#Human_toxicity
Please note the Adverse effects, just because you have not dropped down dead does not mean its not bad for you. And not all people will react the same. Do I need to link the man eating DDT video again?

It is my personal view that pesticides impregnating the wax is not a concern. I see that as safely locked away. As you say it what can get into the honey that is of concern.

But regarding the reuse of treated frames. If frames were treated one year then put back into honey production the following year, that that is a good time period. Particularly if the frames are empty. Sun light will also help break down most pesticides faster. I saw a you tube vid where some guy in he states just hung up all his super frames under a shelter. But wind and light could still get to them. He said moths wont attack them too. But it was a great setup for decontaminating frames

 

[Wilco]

To put it in context, Amitraz is widely used in dog flea collars. I touch my dogs flea collar several times per day. No doubt I then put my fingers in my mouth or on food.

Not in the UK, at least not legally. Nasty stuff. That being said, the amount present in the strips is going to be tiny to kill mites but not the bees...

 

[Boston Bees]

Apivar has been used, and therefore misused, globally for many many years. In that time, has a single incidence been recorded, anywhere in the world, of a toxic effect on someone from eating honey with Amitraz in?

I believe not.

So I'm not particularly concerned by it.

 

[Wilco]

@Foxylad, there you go. Three other beekeepers essentially saying the same thing but still finding a way to argue about it...

Stick with the datasheet.

 

[Patrick1]

It must have been raining in lot of areas yesterday, why are you even a discussing using these chemicals outside the manufacturers recommended data sheet information and guidlines. We all worry ( or should do ) about the levels of HMF and moisture in our honey, we refuse to by the “honey” sold as honey by supermarkets and yet we discuss and dismiss what damage a chemical could do to us, amazing !! Stick to the rules please.

 

[spiderplantman]

But it will get in any stores in any brood boxes and will impregnate the wax in any combs which are present. As far as I'm aware, honey can be moved around within a hive and contaminated stores may still be present long after treatment.

Amitraz is not wax-soluble, so won’t impregnate the wax. It will be present in the stores, but I guess the theory is the bees eat this, not humans, and that by the time you’re putting more supers on, the bees will have used up all their stores, the treatment will have ceased, and any remaining amitraz will be such small concentration and/or broken down, that you probably have other things to worry about instead.

A couple of my hives have a shallow box above a main deep brood, containing some brood and stores Previously I would have been able to reuse any of those frames, shallow or deep, in any part of the hive. After treatment I'm not sure I should be doing that.

Amitraz also breaks down rapidly in sunlight, so if you want to do brood and a half and then later use the shallow for supering, store your frames in the light. Of course, that’ll encourage insects to take an interest in them, but that’s the choice you make.

Here’s some info from the NZ site (veto-pharma’s eu site is less useful)

The French laboratory of ANSES in Sofia Antipolis, is the reference lab for the European Union for honey bee health. It has conducted a residue trial in 2007 whose results are consistent to previous ones:

No residue of Amitraz was detected in honey after 10 weeks of treatment, regardless of the date of sampling. This is due to the instability of the active ingredient in an acid environment. Other studies have also proved that the amitraz is fully degraded after 10 days in honey.
No residue of amitraz in wax after 24h after the removal of the strips.
This publication also studied residues of coumaphos in honey and wax with less satisfactory results.
Other studies concluded that quantities of residues of amitraz or its main metabolites in honey are always under the MRL.
Ref: Martel A.C. et al, Acaricide residues in honey and wax after treatment of honey bee colonies with Apivar or Asuntol 50, Apidologie (2007), 38, 2002, 534-544

Ref : R.M. Goodwin et al, Residues of amitraz in wax honey and propolis after using Apivar, 2002

So, given time it looks like it doesn’t persist, but if the product is giving you concerns, don’t use it.

 

[user 20297]

It must have been raining in lot of areas yesterday, why are you even a discussing using these chemicals outside the manufacturers recommended data sheet information and guidlines. We all worry ( or should do ) about the levels of HMF and moisture in our honey, we refuse to by the “honey” sold as honey by supermarkets and yet we discuss and dismiss what damage a chemical could do to us, amazing !! Stick to the rules please.

Your probably right; I'm stupid to even consider asking fellow beekeepers on the biggest and best beekeeping forum for their thoughts on a beekeeping matter.

No-one has suggested anything other than following the manufacturer directions for use.

 

[user 20297]

Amitraz is not wax-soluble, so won’t impregnate the wax. It will be present in the stores, but I guess the theory is the bees eat this, not humans, and that by the time you’re putting more supers on, the bees will have used up all their stores, the treatment will have ceased, and any remaining amitraz will be such small concentration and/or broken down, that you probably have other things to worry about instead.



Amitraz also breaks down rapidly in sunlight, so if you want to do brood and a half and then later use the shallow for supering, store your frames in the light. Of course, that’ll encourage insects to take an interest in them, but that’s the choice you make.

Here’s some info from the NZ site (veto-pharma’s eu site is less useful)



So, given time it looks like it doesn’t persist, but if the product is giving you concerns, don’t use it.

That's a very useful reply; thankyou. And if the highighted point you made is correct, that goes a long way towards removing my concerns.

 

[Boston Bees]

As is so often the case, the Prof has one of the better summaries on the subject :

https://www.theapiarist.org/queens-and-amitraz-residues-in-wax/

 

[user 20297]

A perfect answer...thank-you; I'm reading it now.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Says withdrawal period on honey 0 days. So I can not extract honey when treating?

Zero days means you can safely put on supers immediately after removing the strips