How much food for winter?

[Gilberdyke John]

I have a ten frame 14 x 12 WBC hive which has a super on. This has Buckfasts hived from a Nuc this year and took off like a rocket. The bees stuffed it with nectar and there are presently 3 hives of 14 x 12 with supers in the expanding empire. All still pouring nectar in. How much honey would each hive need as food for the winter without additional feeding? Is there a standard of one frame of honey to a number of frames of brood or is it a matter of continuous monitoring and feeding if the stores get too low? I am quite happy to let the bees have all they make in this establishing year but if I could get a little honey out it would be nice

 

[enrico]

As the queen goes off lay the bees will fill bb with stores. If a bb is full of stores that should be enough but as a precaution a bb and a super is more than enough. The monitoring you have to do is to make sure that as autumn passes the bees have been able to get enough nectar to fill the bb. If not then you have to feed with 2:1 sugar solution or similar. The best way to overwinter them is with the super underneath the bb. They will eat through that first moving upwards. In early spring you can then remove that super which makes sure that you are not getting sugar solution in your first crop of honey. In theory anyway
E

 

[Davelin]

40lb of stores is generally taken as a bench mark, and a full 14x12 frame will be 6-8lb.

You would hope to be able to take some off this summer and leave enough if you don't want to do any additional feeding.

 

[user 6228]

The amount of food required is dependant on the energy losses of the hive. this depends on the thermal conductivity of the hive and the local conditions and the size of the colony. The conductivity in turn depends on the material, the shape and the air leaks in the top of the hive. A value between 4kg and 40kg of sugars is used.

 

[Barbarian]

There can be many variables to affect the answer. Climate (East Yorkshire --- yuk ?), strain of bee and apiary location are some of them.

Each year year you will hear of over-wintering bees starving, or dying leaving plenty of stores. It might be best to ask local experienced keeps for their practices. From the different suggestions you can then decide the path for you.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

There can be many variables to affect the answer. Climate (East Yorkshire --- yuk ?), strain of bee and apiary location are some of them.

Each year year you will hear of over-wintering bees starving, or dying leaving plenty of stores. It might be best to ask local experienced keeps for their practices. From the different suggestions you can then decide the path for you.

The local consensus seemed to revolve around "it all depends" Perhaps an example of two beekeepers with three opinions?
From replies above I will aim to leave five frames of honey per hive and fit a winter jacket of kingspan. If there is some spare I will manually extract a frame for the table. Thanks for the input.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Sorry to be stupid, but are you saying you got three strong colonies from one nuc?

 

[user 6228]

The local consensus seemed to revolve around "it all depends" Perhaps an example of two beekeepers with three opinions?
From replies above I will aim to leave five frames of honey per hive and fit a winter jacket of kingspan. If there is some spare I will manually extract a frame for the table. Thanks for the input.

Ensure
1 the winter jacket comes all the way down to the entrance at the front and past the varroa tray at the back and sides using 50mm thickness. It goes over the crown board and any winter eke and replaces the original roof
2) the kingspan roof and sides of the jacket are sealed INSIDE to each other with adhesive tape.

3. Put this on ASAP so that bees can acclimatise.
4 make the internal height and width of the jacket 10mm bigger than the hive so it's easier to take on and off

 

[drstitson]

a single 14x12 BB FULL. That's the beauty of the large single deep box option (be it 14x12, LS or dadant).

 

[itma]

a single 14x12 BB FULL. That's the beauty of the large single deep box option (be it 14x12, LS or dadant).

Yes, even the 10 frames of a 14x12 WBC will easily accommodate enough stores for even a Yorkshire winter.
"40 pounds or 20 kilos" of stores at 6 to 8 pounds per 14x12 frame ...
There should be no need (or benefit) to leave on a super - particularly a part-filled one. (And definitely no QX)
And I wouldn't suggest extracting honey from your brood frames (few extractors can handle 14x12's anyway).

If you have much Ivy in your locality, the bees will happily fill up with that during the Autumn.
Should you think that you are a bit light in October, you can still top up with Ambrosia (or even strong syrup) - particularly from a contact feeder.
Plenty time yet.


/// ADDED - quantity of stores is not usually related to colony size. Smaller colonies need more per bee! But colonies that are "too small" can fail during the winter despite excess stores. Consequently, most beeks will combine their smallest colonies before winter to ensure that they are strong enough to "get going" well at the start of Spring.

 

[rosco]

Ensure
1 the winter jacket comes all the way down to the entrance at the front and past the varroa tray at the back and sides using 50mm thickness. It goes over the crown board and any winter eke and replaces the original roof
2) the kingspan roof and sides of the jacket are sealed INSIDE to each other with adhesive tape.

3. Put this on ASAP so that bees can acclimatise.
4 make the internal height and width of the jacket 10mm bigger than the hive so it's easier to take on and off

derekm, this sounds a good idea that I might try, but I have a couple of questions if that is ok. How do you waterproof this jacket? I understand that there will be foil on the back of the kingspan but what about around the edges (where you have cut it)? How do you cover those edges to stop moisture ingress, which I presume would allow a cold bridge to form?

Do you happen to have a photo of the finished article?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

The golden rule of insulation is moisture barrier to the warm side.

 

[user 6228]

derekm, this sounds a good idea that I might try, but I have a couple of questions if that is ok. How do you waterproof this jacket? I understand that there will be foil on the back of the kingspan but what about around the edges (where you have cut it)? How do you cover those edges to stop moisture ingress, which I presume would allow a cold bridge to form?

Do you happen to have a photo of the finished article?

Just use foil tape on the exposed cut edges... I would use reticel (jewsons) rather than king span as the foil is more sturdy. A water proof polyurethane glue and bamboo barbecue skewers to hold it together while the glue sets.

 

[rosco]

Thanks derekm. Sounds like a good system. I might just give it a try.

 

[user 6228]

Thanks derekm. Sounds like a good system. I might just give it a try.

good luck... Here are some pictures of the cover in another thread

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=348518#post348518

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Great shot; thank you and thanks for making it clear you need board with vapour barriers both sides.

 

[Finman]

40lb of stores is generally taken as a bench mark, and a full 14x12 frame will be 6-8lb.

.

That is correct to one box langstroth has the same.

First:

- the hive must have space that queen can lay sufficient amount of brood for winter bees. What it is on your area, clear it out and the last feeding week.

- if you try to collect winter food from honey, take care that the queen has a good laying space. - at least those 8 frames.

- the cluster will be the same size as last brood amount
8 frames of brood will over winter in one box and 15 frames brood needs 2 boxes.

Second

- before you feed for winter, reduce the wintering space to minimum.

Third:
- feed one box colony full. Otherwise bees do not cap the cells. 20 kg
- feed about 30 kg.

- If it is feeding time and you have last change to feed, put empty comb box over brood and feed it full. Then they have winter store.

Fourth:

- do the feeding during short prriod (max one week) that colony does not start brood rearing again.
then, let them be in peace.


Last

- question is not that the colony goes alive over winter.
It should be large cluster. Its life is easier than small one's'

- if colony is small after winter, its start up during spring is painfull.

- It is easier to make a good hive over winter that try to make it in autumn or in spring. That is an alternative qjuestion: when you are going to do it. It is good time to do it.

 

[rosco]

good luck... Here are some pictures of the cover in another thread

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=348518#post348518

Thanks for taking the time to post the pics. It looks a lot smarter than I was expecting it to. I had been thinking of dummying down using kingspan and then a sheet over the crownboard but this would be much better.