How many of the experienced on here will vouch for this? 5 year min exp please.

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Poly Hive 

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I did a wee google on "replacing brood comb" and opened up, National Bee Unit FAQ 32.

Point 5 reads:

"Can I just replace the odd brood comb with foundation?
This is the most common system used by beekeepers and probably creates the most problems especially in single brood chamber management systems with the smaller types of hive. Foundation placed in a bottom brood chamber is invariably spoilt unless a powerful swarm with a good honey flow is drawing it out.
Foundation put into a bottom brood chamber is drawn out from the top downwards, as a result it becomes travel stained and covered in propolis. The bees then nibble the foundation away leaving holes between the comb and the bottom bars of the frame.
In double brood chamber systems the foundation can be put into the upper chamber so this problem does not occur.


I have never found it a problem to have foundation drawn out in single Nationals, Smiths, and or Langstroth. Whether poly or timber.

This statement in my experience, and I am talking thousands of sheets here, is just plain wrong.

What do you think?

As posted in the title if you have less than five years experience then please resist.

PH
 

MJBee 

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:iagree:

I have not experienced this until this year. I made up a Nuc using 2 frames from 3 different colonies replacing the frames with foundation. 2 colonies drew them out straight away with no holes, the third took the huff big time and refused to draw them, chewed holes all over the place and in fact went into the winter on 9 frames in that box (double brood so plenty of room and stores)
 

victor meldrew 

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All bees will fiddle about chewing foundation if expansion isn't on their immediate agenda:)
I use 14x12s and find that foundation over a QX usually ensures the proper drawing out thereof !
On the other hand ,during a big honey flow ,they will draw foundation out properly where ever it is in the hive !

John Willkinson
 

Midland Beek 

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I have never found it a problem to have foundation drawn out in single Nationals, Smiths, and or Langstroth. Whether poly or timber.

This statement in my experience, and I am talking thousands of sheets here, is just plain wrong.
Have I missed something?

NBU are saying that if you put foundation into the bottom brrod box of a double brood box system, you may get problems. NBU are not saying that you get problems in a single brood box system.
 

Chris B 

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Well it's certainly not something I would worry about. Chewed foundation does happen sooner or later during a weak or non-existent flow. But I can't say I've noticed it more with smaller hives (I still use a few Nationals) or below the QX. In fact I had a bit of chewing in Langstroth supers this July once the rain started.
 

beebreeder 

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Its a scenario that is caused by a number of things, mainly nectar/pollen flow, if there is a good flow on they will draw out as good as gold, the other thing that I have found can make a difference is the race of bee if you are using a particular race, some build lovely comb and some chew the foundation to bits. Lastly the quality of the foundation can also effect there efficiency, KBS is best IMHO
kev
 

crazy_bull 

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I have seen it but only a few times, and that from memory has only been late in the season comb changes, i usually only do comb changes during a good flow, but have seen it in weaker and colonies out of a flow.

More often i see the combs fully drawn but they cut the bottom half inch off the bottom of the foundation.


In all i would guess i have seen what NBU have described 5 or 6 times in the last 17 years.


C B
 

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My neighrbour a beekeeper put a box of foundations every spring at the bottom of hive and when it is time to enlarge bees draw the foundations.

I use to put an extra room for rape field on the top and at bottom. At bottom I put box full of foundations. Bees draw them, fill with honey and cap it. I just find there 25 kg capped honey before autumn.

When the hive is small and weathers are chilly, it is good to put enlargening to the bottom.

So it works in nature. Bees make new combs down wards.

If bees are not ready to draw foundations, nothing happens. If hive is too cold, perhaps bees try to stuck ventilation.
 

Finman 

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I have one rule that i dot not put foundation agaist a cold wall. Bees like to change worker bottoms to drone cells it is better then cut dronecells off and melt a piece of new foundation into the hole.
 

mbc 

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Have I missed something?

NBU are saying that if you put foundation into the bottom brrod box of a double brood box system, you may get problems. NBU are not saying that you get problems in a single brood box system.
Spot on

Finmans bit about the cold walls also holds good
 

Poly Hive 

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Sorry all but they say this as per my OP.

"Foundation placed in a bottom brood chamber is invariably spoilt unless a powerful swarm with a good honey flow is drawing it out."

They are saying it is always spoilt in a single bb.

I cannot disagree more strongly. It is utter rubbish in my experience. It may be true that swarms will do a good job but a normal colony will draw it out no bother.

PH
 

mbc 

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"Foundation placed in a bottom brood chamber is invariably spoilt unless a powerful swarm with a good honey flow is drawing it out.

In double brood chamber systems the foundation can be put into the upper chamber so this problem does not occur."

It may be poor english, but these two sentances taken together seem to indicate that the "bottom brood chamber" in the first sentance is the bottom one of two
and that poorly drawn foundation can be avoided if foundation is added to the top box.

If ,as you suggest PH, they mean "They are saying it is always spoilt in a single bb." then I'd have to concur, it aint true !
 

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