How many first year beeks quit?

[PhilN]

I think I’ve reached the end of the line beekeeping (albeit a short one!). 10 months in and it’s been nothing but frustration and disappointment (and expense!) The colony I bought last June and lovingly nurtured, fed, varroxed, insulated and left CB on for the whole winter had undoubtedly got nosema. I work full time, and underestimated the time needed to keep bees healthy (how on earth do they survive in the wild!)
I wonder what percentage of new beekeepers quit in the first year? I can’t see how it’s possible to do what’s required and not be retired or full-time beekeeper.
I’m going to treat with Thymol as a very long shot..not even sure if it’s a pointless waste of more time and money. Is it worth giving it a go (spraying bees with thymol mix) I don’t suppose I’ve got anything to lose.

 

[drex]

As part of the microscopy exam I had to prepare a slide for Nosema. When the examiner looked, he said he had never seen such a heavy infection. He asked if he could have a sample for teaching purposes. I think this was Autumn time and we talked about treatment but he had doubts about success. I did thymol sprays and the colony over wintered ok and were good to go in spring.
The first year is hard, with a steep learning curve, but I got so much enjoyment from it. I was working full time with two hives. Managed to get up to 15 colonies before deciding to cut back. Keep going, it does get easier and less anxiety provoking and more enjoyable

 

[enrico]

I think I’ve reached the end of the line beekeeping ;albeit a short one!). 10 months in and it’s been nothing but frustration and disappointment (and expense!) The colony I bought last June and lovingly nurtured, fed, varroxed, insulated and left CB on for the whole winter had undoubtedly got nosema. I work full time, and underestimated the time needed to keep bees healthy (how on earth do they survive in the wild!)
I wonder what percentage of new beekeepers quit in the first year? I can’t see how it’s possible to do what’s required and not be retired or full-time beekeeper.
I’m going to treat with Thymol as a very long shot..not even sure if it’s a pointless waste of more time and money. Is it worth giving it a go (spraying bees with thymol mix) I don’t suppose I’ve got anything to lose.

Go onto the blogs, click on my avatar in the authors and have a read. You are not alone. It can be a heartbreaking hobby but it can also be heartwarming one. I hope you and your bees survive. The most important thing is that you care enough to worry!

 

[Nannysbees]

Don't give up, we had our two hives last June as well and it has been a constant worry especially with the pandemic.We at lucky to have an experienced beekeeper at the end of the phone and believe me we have contacted him many times, try and find a mentor if you can. In hindsight we would have joined a course, in sure these will be up and running soon so try and join one if you can even though you are a year down the line. Your passion for bees must be there to have started beekeeping so sort out this little problem and in sure things will get easier. Good luck

 

[Murox]

Stick with it ! and let us know how you get on.

 

[drdrday]

Persevere, don't give up just yet! When things are going well beekeeping is pure joy. You can take so much pleasure from simply watching the bees go about their business on a summer's day, or finding they've made it through a long winter or seeing the first run of honey pouring out of the extractor or... I could go on for quite some time. But I'm also aware that each of these joyful moments is made more so in contrast with the times of nail biting worry and uncertainty.

It sounds like you've had a rough start - but maybe you'll have a less bumpy middle.

Personally I work full time and don't really find I need to spend more than an afternoon a week (during the season) on a couple of colonies of bees (I spend more time reading this forum ).

I'm even starting to find it difficult to spend money on anything else now going into my third season . It's definitely a case of shelling out cash the first couple of years but I feel I now have everything I need to maintain two colonies (plus the odd nuc) and am actually more than covering costs selling honey and bees.

With regard to the nosema, it certainly sounds like thymol is worth a shot before you give up on the bees and beekeeping. It's not a problem I've had (yet), but I do put a bit of thymol in the syrup I feed in the autumn.

 

[viridens]

It will all get easier and less time consuming with practice. You will also hopefully be able spot and deal with problems before they reach crisis level, and worry less! Having said that, it is also important that you get enjoyment from your hobby, and not just soldier on because of the cash you have poured into it.

 

[boywonder]

On one level, it sounds like you may have just been dreadfully unlucky... Nosema, queen failure etc... happen to the best of them - so I would echo what others have said. Give it another crack. Beekeeping can be ... no, IS... a wonderful pastime. Futhermore, you'll have made most of the capital investment already.

I will say this, though; I also have a full time job, and still manage (just about) to run 15 colonies. That you have been finding it a tough juggling act with even one colony tends to suggest to me that you might be trying to do too much... especially when, for the majority of those 10 months, the bees should have required little or no intervention.

I'm not wanting to argue the toss about OA vaping, but we don't all do it. Also, colonies which have not been deprived of their own stores at an inappropriate point late in the season may generally not need feeding before (and certainly not during) winter. I think with a baseline of an effective early autumn varroa treatment and top-up feed (if needed), most bees will make it through just fine.

In this month's Beecraft, Ian Wallace (commercial beekeeper of repute), suggests that hobbyists have a tendency to intervene too frequently, and that their bees are potentially less healthy/productve as a result... 'killing them with kindness' as he puts it.

Just conscious there may have been a bit of that going on here. Bees can live in boxes with precious little intervention. Chill, and the experience will become a whole lot more pleasurable.

 

[PhilN]

Last ditch plan…, I’m thinking that to try and save the colony that has nosema I’m going to mix up 1:1 sugar syrup with 30g of Thymol, open up the crown board and mist spray the bees with it. I appreciate that it is unlikely to work, but if I do nothing then I’m sure the colony will be a goner. I’ve got some VitaPower too that I could mix in to it - might make things better - I’m thinking it can’;t make it any worse.

I was planning on doing it late this afternoon after work. (it’ll be around 10-11 degrees) and whilst it’d be better if it was warmer (like this weekend is forecast), I’m thinking the longer I leave it the worse things will get.

Any thoughts? Is there something I can do to reduce the huge odds of failure!

Thanks for any advice

 

[Repwoc]

had undoubtedly got nosema

Have you had a positive diagnosis ie by microscopy? Otherwise what are the symptoms?

 

[PhilN]

On one level, it sounds like you may have just been dreadfully unlucky... Nosema, queen failure etc... happen to the best of them - so I would echo what others have said. Give it another crack. Beekeeping can be ... no, IS... a wonderful pastime. Futhermore, you'll have made most of the capital investment already.

I will say this, though; I also have a full time job, and still manage (just about) to run 15 colonies. That you have been finding it a tough juggling act with even one colony tends to suggest to me that you might be trying to do too much... especially when, for the majority of those 10 months, the bees should have required little or no intervention.

I'm not wanting to argue the toss about OA vaping, but we don't all do it. Also, colonies which have not been deprived of their own stores at an inappropriate point late in the season may generally not need feeding before (and certainly not during) winter. I think with a baseline of an effective early autumn varroa treatment and top-up feed (if needed), most bees will make it through just fine.

In this month's Beecraft, Ian Wallace (commercial beekeeper of repute), suggests that hobbyists have a tendency to intervene too frequently, and that their bees are potentially less healthy/productve as a result... 'killing them with kindness' as he puts it.

Just conscious there may have been a bit of that going on here. Bees can live in boxes with precious little intervention. Chill, and the experience will become a whole lot more pleasurable.

I tried to set the bees up to weather the winter well - I didn't take any stores from them, had Apivar on for 6 weeks until mid October - did an OA vape at Christmas - had fondant on (which they have only taken half of (2 kg since November) gave sugar syrup 2:1 - and didn't open the CB after I took the Apivar off. in October so as not to disturb them. Oh well....

 

[PhilN]

Have you had a positive diagnosis ie by microscopy? Otherwise what are the symptoms?

Very little activity at the hive entrance - bees very sluggish and twitchy - lots of long, continuous , dark streaks of bee dysentry on the landing board (totally different in appearance to the bee poo last summer) identical in fact to pictures of Nosema-indicating dysentry on Internet (I cleaned off the landing board before I started to get concerned)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Have you had a positive diagnosis ie by microscopy? Otherwise what are the symptoms?

I'm struggling to understand your conviction that they have nosema...........and which one? Ceranae or Apis?

 

[boywonder]

Any thoughts? Is there something I can do to reduce the huge odds of failure!

Thanks for any advice

Personally - and to reiterate what I said previously about excessive intervention - I would not open them up, as I don't think the disruption to what is evidently a small/weak colony will do anything other than harm them. It's too cold, and they're probably too depleted.

Try and be philosophical. Watch them at the entrance. Count them. Observe them.

A couple of years ago, I had a nuc, with only a grapefruit sized cluster going into the winter. Possibly hopeless. What came out the other side looked equally hopeless. Less than tennis ball sized, squitting for England and lethargic.... Almost certainly a gonner... But, the way I looked at it, what was to be gained by titting around with them.

Every lunchtime, I spent 10 minutes with a coffee sitting near the entrance, and observing. Sure enough, day by day, the lethargy tailed off, the traffic increased, and, needless to say, the colony pulled through. In fact, it became one of my better ones.

You might possibly not be so lucky, but, if you have a healthy, well mated queen, and with the reasonably clement weather (and available pollen), they already have the best chance possible.

Chill.

 

[Murox]

Very little activity at the hive entrance - bees very sluggish and twitchy - lots of long, continuous , dark streaks of bee dysentry on the landing board (totally different in appearance to the bee poo last summer) identical in fact to pictures of Nosema-indicating dysentry on Internet (I cleaned off the landing board before I started to get concerned)

Dysentery is an indication that your colony has a problem, not necessarily from nosema. The way to tell whether your bees are infected by nosema or not is by looking through a microscope.

 

[boywonder]

Duplicate post. Sorry

 

[PhilN]

Personally - and to reiterate what I said previously about excessive intervention - I would not open them up, as I don't think the disruption to what is evidently a small/weak colony will do anything other than harm them. It's too cold, and they're probably too depleted.

Try and be philosophical. Watch them at the entrance. Count them. Observe them.

A couple of years ago, I had a nuc, with only a grapefruit sized cluster going into the winter. Possibly hopeless. What came out the other side looked equally hopeless. Less than tennis ball sized, squitting for England and lethargic.... Almost certainly a gonner... But, the way I looked at it, what was to be gained by titting around with them.

Every lunchtime, I spent 10 minutes with a coffee sitting near the entrance, and observing. Sure enough, day by day, the lethargy tailed off, the traffic increased, and, needless to say, the colony pulled through. In fact, it became one of my better ones.

You might possibly not be so lucky, but, if you have a healthy, well mated queen, and with the reasonably clement weather (and available pollen), they already have the best chance possible.

Chill.

Thanks . I’m going to borrow a microscope from the science dept and crush a few bees and look under the microscope as per the scientificbeekeeping.com nosema microscopy post

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks . I’m going to borrow a microscope from the science dept and crush a few bees and look under the microscope as per the scientificbeekeeping.com nosema microscopy post

Have a look at Randy Oliver’s Quick Squash method. That’s the one I use

 

[pargyle]

I think I’ve reached the end of the line beekeeping (albeit a short one!). 10 months in and it’s been nothing but frustration and disappointment (and expense!) The colony I bought last June and lovingly nurtured, fed, varroxed, insulated and left CB on for the whole winter had undoubtedly got nosema. I work full time, and underestimated the time needed to keep bees healthy (how on earth do they survive in the wild!)
I wonder what percentage of new beekeepers quit in the first year? I can’t see how it’s possible to do what’s required and not be retired or full-time beekeeper.
I’m going to treat with Thymol as a very long shot..not even sure if it’s a pointless waste of more time and money. Is it worth giving it a go (spraying bees with thymol mix) I don’t suppose I’ve got anything to lose.

It's difficult .. and one of the reasons so many people give up beekeeping .. work commitments, family commitments, holidays, illness ... they all contrive to making it exceedingly difficult to fit in the time it takes to keep bees. If you think the first year is hard ... year two and sometimes year three get harder as you either end up with more colonies to manage or spend more time trying to stop having more colonies to manage.

You've started beekeeping when there are no courses being run, no hands on assistance available, no mentors to drop round and reassure you that what you see is normal. .. it really could not be worse.

No matter how much you enjoy your bees at present... if it becomes an impossible task or a chore you will neglect them - it happens and you certainly would not get any criticism from me. I was on the cusp a couple of times in my first years - I work full time, had huge commitments in terms of family and many issues and it was only by about year three that I started to get a bit better organised, understood what needed to be done and when and it became easier.

You would not be the first to feel that it's a step too far at present and shelved your beekeeping until your personal situation provided the time and the wherewithall to do what has to be done - because - it HAS to be done. It's like walking the dog every day - it's part and parcel of keeping pets or livestock.

Don't be swayed by those encouraging you to stick with it ... if you really enjoy your beekeeping then take their advice and keep going - but - if it is becoming a chore and you (and your family) come to resent it ~ then don't be afraid to put your beekeeping on the back burner for another day. Be it in a year or two or like many on here - return to it when you can retire or ease back on the other things.

Once the Covid situation eases and things get back to nearer normal there will be more help available and association meetings and apiary visits ... even if you don't have your own bees at that stage you can be involved - there will be mentors, people who need a hand for a bit or someone to look after their bees whilst they are on holiday in return for a few jars. Lots of things you can do to keep your hand in the hive without the commitment of keeping your own bees.

Nobody wants to see fresh blood in the craft give up .. so don't give up - if the worst comes to the worst - just take a sabbatical and come back later. In the meantime you can stick around here and laugh at what the rest of us have to put up with !

 

[Erichalfbee]

And if you do take that break. Don’t get rid of the kit. You’ll need it again.
Good luck.