How long does a bee colony last?

[Arfermo]

Is there any point in this thread?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Is there any point in this thread?

Oh for Heaven's sake! How long have you been a member?!

 

[Finman]

Is there any point in this thread?

I am wondering the same.

 

[pargyle]

Oh my ... I'm not sure where this thread is going ...

I know treatment free beekeepers who have not lost significant number of colonies over many years.
I know at least one treatment free beekeeper who lost all his colonies over one year for reasons that could be attributable to varroa.
I know many beekeepers who treat their bees for varroa, in a varety of ways, whose colonies largely survive,
I also know a good few beekeepers who treat their bees for varroa yet they experience significant colony losses every year (which they say are unexplainable).

What do I know ?

Well ...
I think bad or ill-informed beekeepers damage colonies.
I think colonies overloaded with varroa damages and can kill colonies.
I think there's a place in beekeeping for people who don't treat their bees for varroa but that does not mean they should be left with high varroa loads or be unmanaged.
I think there should be a balance - if a colony can survive and thrive without treatment it should be allowed to continue without treatment.
If a colony proves to be susceptible to varroa infestation and cannot manage the situation without assistance then they should be helped with treatment for varroa by the beekeeper.

So much depends on factors that cannot be consistent from any perspective. There is rarely any certainties in keeping bees ... some colonies survive some die out. Some are susceptible to varroa, some are not. Some colonies are susceptible to disease, some seem not to be..

You can only do what you think is best and the rest is down to the bees and a degree of luck.

 

[Wilco]

I am wondering the same.

No it is like a river and will keep flowing. Like a hive it will continue as we beekeepers requeen the original topic with our posts whilst the OP desperately tries to supercede to continue the original query and we all and keep propagating it until we have to debate whether it is still the same thread or has changed substantially enough to become a different one...



Edit: it'll stop when the mods act like varroa and mute the thread.

 

[Arfermo]

Oh for Heaven's sake! How long have you been a member?!

Longer than you?

 

[pargyle]

No it is like a river and will keep flowing. Like a hive it will continue as we beekeepers requeen the original topic with our posts whilst the OP desperately tries to supercede to continue the original query and we all and keep propagating it until we have to debate whether it is still the same thread or has changed substantially enough to become a different one...



Edit: it'll stop when the mods act like varroa and mute the thread.

Just wait a month or two until we can't play with out bees anymore ... this thread is a pussycat compared to some we've seen in the close season ! It will drift on but the answer is really that there is no answer.

 

[Arfermo]

It will drift on but the answer is really that there is no answer.

So kill it off now - pleeeeease.

 

[bingevader]

but the answer is really that there is no answer.

Oh, I thought we'd just about nailed it before the thread drifted off.
If the progeny and relating genes originate from the previous queen then it is still the same colony.
A new swarm or an introduced queen would be a new colony.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Longer than you?

I know: that's the point I was kiddingly trying to make.... (Never joke in text...)

And let's coin TTLTB's Law, as a direct offshoot of Godwin's Law (that any internet debate on politics inevitably eventually involves the use of the term "Nazi"). Any thread long enough on this forum evolves to be about treatment or non-treatment. There are exceptions but this is not one.

 

[Erichalfbee]

So kill it off now - pleeeeease.

Turn off your notifications

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just wait a month or two until we can't play with out bees anymore ... this thread is a pussycat compared to some we've seen in the close season ! It will drift on but the answer is really that there is no answer.

I quite enjoy these, don’t you?

 

[pargyle]

I quite enjoy these, don’t you?

Yes ... I like a good thread that drifts off into the ether after a good bit of entertaining debate that goes nowhere and nobody gets too heated about it ... keeps me alive during the close season !

 

[oxnatbees]

You may find the answer in Tom Sealy’s work, he studied swarms in trees and concluded that a swarm only survived on average 1 year.

Can you point exactly to where he said that?

My understanding of his findings was that most swarms died but those that made it through winter were in robust health the next year.

He is running a long term multinational study to resolve the facts of survival time for unmanaged bees. There may be some preliminary results in a year or two. Meanwhile all else is anecdote and opinion.

There are several long lived wild colonies near me. I could go on, but I'm fed up with being accused of lying on this forum. The evidence will resolve the argument.

 

[gmonag]

A colony is like a town. The population is constantly churning but the town remains.
A bit like Trigger's broom.

 

[Finman]

Have you noticed that natural colonies' dead rate is very high. A colony produced every year 2 swarms, but next summer the total number of colonies are almost same. So the nature works.

If all colonies were all alive, world would be full of bees

 

[Patrick1]

...but that's not the same as a managed colony in a box.

I would think it lends itself to the argument that bees without intervention will die out more quickly

 

[Patrick1]

Can you point exactly to where he said that?

My understanding of his findings was that most swarms died but those that made it through winter were in robust health the next year.

He is running a long term multinational study to resolve the facts of survival time for unmanaged bees. There may be some preliminary results in a year or two. Meanwhile all else is anecdote and opinion.

There are several long lived wild colonies near me. I could go on, but I'm fed up with being accused of lying on this forum. The evidence will resolve the argument.

I am sorry but I think that is a harsh response, no one is accusing anyone of lying, I have read honey bee democracy and wisdom of the hive, I have also been fortunate enough to attend conferences with him presenting some of his work.

You can choose where I picked it up from, it doesn’t bother me that much.

Tom Sealy has been working in these areas for decades, new results pop up frequently, they are not meant to be deceptive.

Chill my friend

 

[oxnatbees]

I am sorry but I think that is a harsh response, no one is accusing anyone of lying, I have read honey bee democracy and wisdom of the hive, I have also been fortunate enough to attend conferences with him presenting some of his work.

You can choose where I picked it up from, it doesn’t bother me that much.

Tom Sealy has been working in these areas for decades, new results pop up frequently, they are not meant to be deceptive.

Chill my friend

No not you dude, other people on other threads.

 

[user 20297]

Isn't this a contradiction? Do you or don't you think that varroa will probably kill your colony if left untreated?

No; I don't believe that untreated, kept bees must die off after three or five years and I've read evidence of that on this forum.. But obviously, some untreated and some treated colonies will die off within that timeframe. The conclusion usually jumped to, often without necessarily having evidence, is to say that when bees do die off without being treated it is always because of varroa or because of diseases or issues related to varroa.
I've not been beekeeping long enough to get my fingers burned yet with my lax attitude to mites. When I do I'll be sure to join my voice with everyone elses'...."Treat, treat, treat." But where does the certainty about the outcomes come from when few people will admit to having had the experience of not treating their bees?