How does a hived swarm develop?

[ches chesney]

Hi,
My partner and I would like to get a clearer idea of how a swarm builds into a thriving colony once it is hived.

A timeline would be really useful.

We've had our hive for 34 days now, in which time we've opened it twice. Once to re-hive it (5th day) and once to apply Apiguard (9th day). On the 5th day we identified the queen and saw that she was laying.
Curbing the desire to go in more frequently has been a huge act of willpower!

We have a friend in a similar position who has had his colony for less time, has been in more frequently and is constantly fretting about its wellbeing.

A clear description of the stages of development of a post-swarm colony would really help us manage our expectations and concerns.

Can anyone help us with this, please?

Thank you.

Ches

 

[Cazza]

Hi,
My partner and I would like to get a clearer idea of how a swarm builds into a thriving colony once it is hived.

A timeline would be really useful.

A clear description of the stages of development of a post-swarm colony would really help us manage our expectations and concerns.

Can anyone help us with this, please?

Thank you.

Ches

Swarms differ in size and vigour. How many frames did yours take up when you hived them? How many frames now? Virgin queen or old queen? Forage available?

This information would help to give a more educated answer.

Cazza

P.S You should have opened it at day 23 to remove the Apiguard tray and add another if treating fully. Varroa drop?

 

[oliver90owner]

Further to what Cazza writes: Is the apiguard treatment on-going? I do hope not as that can put the queen off-lay, is not necessary in most situations and may not even have neen necessary at all.


Yours was clearly a prime swarm. In the past a fair sized swarm may have filled a 14 x 12 box in a couple of weeks or so... Just depends on so many factors.

RAB

 

[ches chesney]

Hi Cazza and oliver90owner,

Thank you both for your replies.

I think the colony covered 5 or 6 frames when we re-hived it.
A rapid superficial check of top edges only, 10 days ago, showed about nine frames covered.
It was a one-year-old queen.
We are on Northumbrian moorland with some local mixed woodland.

The apiguard was a one-off to treat the first capped brood.

We'll be going in again for a more thorough inspection on Monday, weather permitting.
Currently, the hive comprises only a brood box. We're hoping that it will require the addition of a super as a half-brood box.

Ches

 

[Chris Luck]

Not forgetting that for the first 3 to 4 weeks the colony size is reducing as bees die without replacements.

Chris

 

[oliver90owner]

The apiguard was a one-off to treat the first capped brood.

Not sure what you are meaning. Thymol is there to kill phoretic mites and does nothing for capped brood.

I would be treating for about four days and culling the first capped brood if treating a swarm with thymol (I don't use Apiguard).

 

[pargyle]

The apiguard was a one-off to treat the first capped brood.

Ches

I wouldn't be treating them until I was sure they needed treatment - if they were a swarm there would only be phoretic mites there to start with - did you sugar dust and check the drop when you got them ?

 

[ches chesney]

Sorry, I expressed myself badly regarding the Apiguard.

What I meant was that we applied it on the 9th day to treat the first batch of brood before it was capped.

 

[ches chesney]

did you sugar dust and check the drop when you got them ?

We did not.
As complete beginners, we were acting on the advice of a more experience beekeeper. The Apiguard was used preventatively.

 

[Finman]

.
I can tell 4 kg swarm development. It fills 2 langstroth boxes.

It has laying queen or new queen. New queen takes about 8 days that it starts to lay.

Then it takes about 4 weeks that new bees have emerged quite much.

With new queen it takes over 5 weeks that the hive start to expand.

The hive has about 8 frames brood and he the rest of frames are full of honey.
The queen fills the box with brood about in one week, but then bees ability to take care limits the growth and hiney limits too brooding.

When it has gone 6 weeks, the hive has 3 langstroth boxes. 1.5 boxes brood and the rest honey 1,5 boxes.

***************

If we have 5 frames swarm, the colony can normally make only 3 frames brood, because outmost frames are cold and filled with honey. Colony is not able to make good brood areas. I may say that after 6 weeks the hive has one box and unable to occupy second box.

in a small hive honey stuck the laying area and brood which give new bees, remain quite small.

It takes again 4-5 weeks before new bees start to emerge.

*****

The bigger the swarm, the quicker is the build up.

 

[pargyle]

We did not.
As complete beginners, we were acting on the advice of a more experience beekeeper. The Apiguard was used preventatively.

Yeah ... there's a lot of beekeepers who look on bashing Varroa on a prophylactic basis - that's how the varroa got to be resistant to the pyrethroids. There should be no harm done but there's a lot of us who believe that treatment WHEN they need it rather than as a matter of course is the better path.

 

[Finman]

Yeah ... there's a lot of beekeepers who look on bashing Varroa as a prophylactic - that's how the varroa got to be resistant to the pyrethroids. There should be no harm done but there's a lot of us who believe that treatment WHEN they need it rather than as a matter of course is the better path.

Swarm is very handy to treat. But I have had swarms this summer, the flow has been so heavy that I did not want to mix stuffs to honey.

I had 3 frame swarm. Before the young queen started to lay, they filled the combs with honey.

I have another 3 frame mating nuc. Now after 5 days laying the queen has no more space to lay. It makes bunches of eggs into cells. I must hive to it the whole box and then take bees from other hives.

I have 15 mating hives but most have very few bees.

Honey comes from 1 km distant from rape.

I have balance hive too and I made 4 box AS. It brough every day 6 kg honey.
Do I pour oxalic there? As nectar 6kg is something else,when they bring it in..

.

 

[meidel]

just to give you an idea of the different rates of buildup between two different genetic crosses (we hived them in 14x12 polynucs and transferred into wooden boxes when there is brood in all stages in 4 frames) -

a swarm with a virgin queen from a carniolan hive which issued on 9th June was discovered to have laid 4 frames of brood within 10 days whereas another swarm, also with a virgin queen, this time, we suspect from a buckfast cross only had 2 frames of brood when inspected on the 10th day. The carniolan cross was quick to build up and now has a super of its own, having filled 9 frames with brood and the 2 frames at the end with stores about a week ago. The buckie cross on the other hand is still only on 6 frames of brood with about 3 in stores and the last 2 frames still in the process of being drawn when we looked yesterday.

 

[Finman]

.
Even if you take from same hive 10 queens, the hives will be more or less individuals.

However I want to estimate how good layers new queen are and I cast those off which are not good.

.

 

[ches chesney]

Thank you, Finman, for your useful comparison of colonies from small and large swarms.

 

[ches chesney]

Thanks, meidel, for your information and drawing attention to the possible influence of the variety of bee.
Ours is a Buckfast cross.

 

[Peterwh]

How do you know its a one year old queen? They all look the same to me. Also, why are you so confident its "a Buckfast cross"?

 

[ches chesney]

Hi Peterwh,
The bees swarmed from the hive of a friend who, knowing we were eager to keep bees, offered them to us.