Hopelessly Q- Before Grafting, How Long?

[GuyNir]

Going to do my first ever grafting this weekend. How long should I leave the hive Q- for before inserting the grafts? (After removing the bottom box with the queen aside)
Thanks

 

[For want of a better word]

Nine days

 

[Plenty of honey]

for best results 12 to 24 hours. but ive left it just a few house and had really good results. the best results come from the strongest most well fed builders. Hopelessly queenless will be noted by the colony in about 30 mins, the longer you leave it the more desperate they become..... to a point. good luck. post your results.

 

[B+.]

Nine days

So that it is clear....you mean 9 days after the queen has had a chance to lay an egg in that box, because that is how long it will take the last egg she laid there to be sealed and no longer available as a potential queen, even in an emergency.
I think he had already done that bit, so, Richards answer is better.

 

[GuyNir]

I think he had already done that bit, so, Richards answer is better.

Correct.

Really like your videos Richard. Keep up the good work

 

[Michael Palmer]

We start grafting 2-3 hours after making the cell builder queenless. There are no larvae in the cell builder section of the hive, as it and it's brood were elevated above excluder.

 

[Poly Hive]

That's a rather different situation Michael. I think the OP was asking from the beginning of the manipulations so I too would say 9 days. Which is why I used to prefer shaking bees into a nuc, leave over night then graft as it was so much faster. The down side of course is it needs a fair number of colonies to avoid over "hitting" on two or three.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

I think the OP was asking from the beginning of the manipulations so I too would say 9 days.

Original poster asked how long after making a hive Q- should he add grafts

How long should I leave the hive Q- for before inserting the grafts?

 

[GuyNir]

Original poster asked how long after making a hive Q- should he add grafts

How long should I leave the hive Q- for before inserting the grafts?

Correct

After moving the brood chamber with the queen aside, so now hopelessly Q-.
9-10 days ago I made sure the Q is in the bottom chamber, below a QE, frames of emerging brood in the top brood chamber, above QE.

 

[GuyNir]

Did my first ever grafts yesterday. Quick check this morning, seems 9 out of 12 took. A bit of a learning experience, tried different grafting tools, found the Chinese one work the best for me.
I tried to look for the young larvae possible. Seems practice is key.
Will the bees reject larva which is too old, or will the result just be inferior Q? If the bees reject a cell, does it mean the larva in it was damaged?
Thanks.

 

[For want of a better word]

Did my first ever grafts yesterday. Quick check this morning, seems 9 out of 12 took. A bit of a learning experience, tried different grafting tools, found the Chinese one work the best for me.
I tried to look for the young larvae possible. Seems practice is key.
Will the bees reject larva which is too old, or will the result just be inferior Q? If the bees reject a cell, does it mean the larva in it was damaged?
Thanks.

You will get some rejects... some say if the larvae is not giving out the correct pheromone signals the bees will reject it.

Once started in the q- starter the finisher bees will bring in tons of royal jelly, not all of them will take.
I am crap at it, and seem to have more failures than successes... first batch this season... batch of 50 grafts resulted in just 10 getting mated queens and now heading up 6 framed nuc boxes.
I reckon there is about a 20% failure on every stage from grafting, to starter, to finisher, to hatching and then mating...... it is a numbers game!

 

[GuyNir]

I only need 5-6 queens, so planning on keeping it in the stater to finish. Other option was to put it in a super above QE in a strong hive, but I’m told for small number of cells ‘starter/finisher all in one’ should work.

 

[For want of a better word]

Look up the Cloak board system..... more or less a q- starter with a q+ finisher in the same colony... great for bringing on a few queens as you hopefully will successfully do!

( May be Cloake board>>>?)

 

[GuyNir]

Checked the cells today, couple are already capped. Was expecting to be capped tomorrow (Wed) as grafting was done on Sat.
Does it mean the larvae on those was a bit older? Is this a big issue Q quality wise?
Thanks.

 

[madasafish]

Checked the cells today, couple are already capped. Was expecting to be capped tomorrow (Wed) as grafting was done on Sat.
Does it mean the larvae on those was a bit older? Is this a big issue Q quality wise?
Thanks.

Sat 1 day
Sun 1 day
Mon 1 day
Tues 1 day
Total 4 days if larvae grafted were 0 hours old..and if capped exactly on hour you grafted..
Add 12 -20 hours for age of larvae grafted.. and nearly 5 days.. which is capping time.
And it has been warm weatherwise which tends to speed things up..

 

[jeff33]

How did you get on? I left mine Q- for 4h and had really good results. However by day 10 with a flow on they had drawn comb all over the grafts and could only salvage 2 cells. I have picked up some useful tips from members on here for my next attempt.

 

[GuyNir]

How did you get on? I left mine Q- for 4h and had really good results. However by day 10 with a flow on they had drawn comb all over the grafts and could only salvage 2 cells. I have picked up some useful tips from members on here for my next attempt.

So far 8 cells are progressing nicely. When checking earlier today, couple were already capped, sure the rest are just about. So far no comb building around the cells. Cups looks full of RJ, so I’m happy with that. Not touching them for now until Sun, when placing into nucs (all made Q- today).

Obviously a small run (grafted 12), but happy so far with 1st attempt. Yet to be seen how well mating go

 

[jeff33]

Make sure your nucs are hopelessly Q- otherwise they will tear down your grafts and make their own cells. I used the push in cell protector and they still managed to get to the cells. The roller protector are a lot better.

 

[GuyNir]

Make sure your nucs are hopelessly Q- otherwise they will tear down your grafts and make their own cells. I used the push in cell protector and they still managed to get to the cells. The roller protector are a lot better.

Thanks Jeff, interesting. Was planning to remove all started QC’s in the nucs on Sun (5 days after making them Q-), before placing a QC (from my grafts), with a cell protector.

Were your cells killed with cell protector?

Grafted cells are due to emerge on Wed, so I could potentially wait another day or two. I also have an incubator I could use. Lots of options...

 

[jeff33]

Yes they were as the bees were still able to raise their own. Lesson learnt.